h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I have spent a lot of time on HooToo this afternoon, when I really ought to have been painting. And the result has been to make me feel really marginal.

So many angry people! Such name calling! Well, maybe it isn't a lot of people, but if there are only a few then they are disproportionately vocal. From an anthropological point of view it's depressing to see that entities can be just as warlike about virtual territory as they are on solid land.

This is freespace. Every settler gets an allotment of space and the freedom of the island. There's a free paper and numerous civic activities like scouting and ACEing. And there's a purpose to the place, a House of Lore at the center of it all, to which we're all allowed and encouraged to contribute.

Being virtual space, there are an infinite number of street corners on which to place your soapbox, and it's almost guaranteed that people will come and listen to what you say. Or you can create a pub or a restaurant or, as I have, a salon, and people will come to share virtual experience.

You can even have quests and adventures, spin your own yarns.


Sure, there's some censorship. And I object to that as much as the next entity. But the intermittent ban on one subject or another is not what is exacerbating some entities.

They don't like the rules which underly the Edited Guide, that House of Lore. They're going underground with their own alternative guide. Well, OK, that's really another publication, since they're still based here.

They're not happy with the Powers That Be. Some comment I have seen goes beyond professional criticism, and becomes snide, personal.

They're not happy with each other! And if I had another spare afternoon and a good supply of pepto-bismol I would collect some examples and post their links here. Netiquette ~this~!!

Not only are they not happy with each other, but they have barbs to spare for the entities they perceive as overly pro-status quo. I have heard the word "underline" used to describe someone whom they consider to be an Italic's Pet.

Heck no, I'm not naming names. Go up to the Feedback Fora and see for yourself.

I would have to be online for several DAYs before I could start to make sense of why people make war even in a place which has no effective boundaries. I am in late middle-age, and perhaps the entities I've been observing are all young, and determined to test every boundary. Perhaps if I can't figure it out, it will be a clear sign that I've become old.

Or perhaps we have got to our middle years having fought enough wars already IRL and don't see the need for them in VR.

I will offer advice if I feel it is genuinely wanted, whilst accepting that it doesn't have to be followed.

I have read a few of the threads that have descended in to unpleasantness and have been quite gobsmacked at the vitriol.

I have wondered why some entries have been pulled and others not. But that is possibly because TPTB haven't got to them yet.

I liked the idea of the UnderGuide when I heard about it several months ago. It was presented to me as a place for people who want to write short stories, poetry, and other types of things not acceptable for the Edited Guide. It wasn't to be in competition with the Guide, since the types of entries would be completely different. Since I would rather write poetry than articles about milkweed bugs, it appealed to me.

Maybe it's my imagination, but it appears that the majority of the venom comes consistently from a hard-core group who insinuate themselves into everything. We have a yikes button for offensive postings. I don't know why some of these folks are still here.

I think that some people just have to make trouble and make a good thing bad.

There are those that whenever I see them I see nothing more than hate and venom and vitriol, they never seem to tire of fighting and arguing. I aviod the vast majority of the guide as a result of this. I don't want to talk to these people because they make me angry and they are everywhere.

I have luckily been able to avoid them and talk only with those few who are my friends, but it is a shame. The best part of the guide, four years ago, was that it allowed me to talk with anyone in teh world about anything that happened tocome to mind.

We will never be able to stop those that wish to spoil places like "Ask h2g2" or teh feedback fora. They will spew their venom till they are an empty husk. All we can do is value the people with good things to say.

I'm finding it difficult to get a grip on my thoughts. The topic is probably too big. I'll try to break it down.

First of all, I must take issue with the title of this thread . I don't think h2g2 is freespace. It has structure, limitations, rules and, most importantly, it has boundaries. Unsurprisingly, most of the problems exist at the boundaries. This is true everywhere in life. If you accept the boundaries, everything else is free in the sense that Lil describes. If you don't accept the boundaries, then I would imagine you would see nearly everything about the site as exclusionist.

My position is that I accept the boundaries and, what's more, I am prepared, from time to time, to enter into reasoned debate with those who are pushing on the boundaries (from either direction). This means, inevitably, that I end up sharing my views with people who don't want to hear them. On the whole, I argue my points successfully, although those on the receiving end don't always acknowledge this with good grace. My aim is to maintain the status quo and to preserve that section of the h2g2 community that wishes to work within the boundaries. I try to value and respect everyone, not just the 'good' (who I would have difficulty identifying anyway), and I take care to criticise behaviour and actions but not the person. I remain civil but I don't shy away from making my points in a robust fashion. Sadly, those who lose arguments against me normally attempt to save face by becoming personally abusive but that's only to be expected.

Very often the unpleasant words remains on the site. It appears that this confuses people but it's unavoidable. The abusers take this as a sign that TPTB agree with them but in reality it is either because no one has pressed the yikes button (there is NO proactive moderation on the site now) or because the 'abuse', whilst nasty, is merely opinion. There is no requirement in the House Rules for posts to be true. A post could be untrue, or just someone's opinion, and yet not fail moderation. The conspiracy theorists have a field day with this. If their posts are removed it's because they're being picked on. If their offensive posts are allowed to stay this is because they're 'right' but if posts by other people are allowed to remain it's evidence of favouritism. The mistaken belief at the bottom of much of the vitriol is that the House Rules include 'contrary to the complainants view of the truth' in the list of what is not acceptable.

I have no argument with the UG or the team running it in principle but there are a few threads around that bother me. I will be challenging those who want the UG to *replace* the EG. Although THHGTTG is fiction, it does not logically follow that Edited Guide Entries should be fiction and saying 'DNA would have wanted it' is not a valid argument for anything and is, in my opinion, disrespectful.

My most immediate concern is the phrase 'The UG Miners are essentially part of the Editorial Team' on page A1092520. I'd love you hear your views on this.

Er... That should be 'I'd love to...' I love you all, of course .

Oh, on the subject of UG Miners, we also find this: "They don't all have the positions of editor, but they're much more important than the editors." on A1092502

Before I go off to look at Amy's links, two things:

What DNA said he wanted -- and I'm going back to what I remember on TDV here -- was a hyper-specific sort of travel guide that you could use with your cell phone, not a compendium of fiction. The Guide in the eponymous book was a travel guide. You keyed in the planet name and then drilled down through categories to find out about alien customs, dining treats, best alcoholic drinks and so on. He wanted there to be one of these for Earth.

The Underguide won't be the first fiction enclave on H2G2, then. Danged if I can remember what the others were, though, because, after several samples, I largely avoided the online fiction experience.


As for freespace, Amy, I was talking about money. You don't have to pay for your patch of land here. When you consider how much acreage the presence of a prolific writer can fill, that's not an insignificant point. The Underguide, if it flourishes, will be parasitic on its host. And this is allowed, too. I don't object to it per se, but I am bemused by the agenda of its founders.

As regards the political concept of 'free,' I completely agree with Amy.

*goes off to look at the links*

The 'What DNA Said' game is a tricky one to play. The article to read is A550955.

For those who aren't happy with the EG the article contains a bit of a gift in the form of the phrase 'we're writing articles about our experiences and ideas and opinions,' which is open to interpretation.

It ~is~ open to interpretation, particularly if you ignore the following paragraph. But I agree that interpretation is tricky, especially wrt a dead man's words, since he can't, via any conventional means, clarify his own thoughts.

I have read through the pages of Underguide and Alternative Writing Workshop (Are they the same thing?) and see nothing objectionable about it, any more than in any other society under the aegis of Hootoo. The main page is under construction; there are some typos, but after checking a few threads I began to wonder if the typos are sprinkled intentionally, as bait.

Anyway, if this is a fiction/feature writing workshop, more power to their collective elbows. If it is intended to replace the EG or be better than it, then I would need to read more about the animal they're trying to build.

In the dropdowns, I saw only one or two of the names that have sparkled so argumentatively in the feedback and other fora. I conclude that I don't have the whole picture -- but I don't have time to chase all these threads down, read all these pages, follow all these arguments. At least not now.

In the brief contact I've had with this geographical part of Hootoo, though, I stand by my initial feelings.

There's nothing on those pages to cause alarm other than the two phrases I picked out.

So, are you saying that everything except the Edited Guide is parasitic? I'm a relative newcomer to h2g2 and have no idea what DNA intended. But I wouldn't enjoy it nearly as much if it was only the Edited Guide.

There was another unpleasant conversation not too long ago wherein some people thought anyone who didn't contribute to the Guide should we kicked out.

When I bought Starship Titanic, DNAs PC game, after registering I received an email inviting me to join an online community with the idea of building an earth edition of THHGTTG.

A community is a group of people that come together to commune and that is how I see Hootoo, somewhere to meet your friends, chat and right guide entries if you wanted to.

Someone who so famously suffered from writer's block would quite understand that not everyone wants to write an entry.

The term parasitic was Lil's and she must explain it herself but I understand it to mean that the UG, like the Post, the pubs, the clubs, and the chatrooms use the facilities that were originally designed for the EG in a way analogous to a parasite using the food, warmth, water and shelter of the host body.

The system of A numbers and related forums might not be ideal for the purpose but we use them nonetheless. Taken with Lil's subsequent remarks, I don't see an implication that any aspect of h2g2 is less important than others, or that the EG is more important just as a parasite is no less of an organism. It's just a fact that the tools provided were designed for the EG.

If any area of the rest of h2g2 started to threaten the EG then that would be a problem. There are people out there fervently hoping - indeed expecting - that the UG will supplant the EG. I wouldn't like that to happen because the site that I signed up for is the site with the EG at its core.

If that is the intent of those involved with the UG, then it has changed from what I was told in the beginning. I didn't have time to become actively involved and didn't keep up with the conversations about it. But I'm sure that it wasn't meant to supplant the Edited Guide.

It was felt that pieces put into AWW just withered and died. So, the UnderGuide was envisioned as a place for the better quality entries in AWW to be recognized. My question at the time was whether or not they were trying to compete with The Post. And the answer I was given was that they weren't trying to compete with anything - that the UG was to be 'in addition to' rather than 'instead of'.

If similar ventures in the past were unsuccessful, then there must be a reason. Perhaps the community as a whole has much more interest in the EG. From the lack of interest in the entries in AWW, I suspect that this is the case. If so, then the UG will have a hard time surviving, let alone taking over.

Anyway, now I'm curious. And I'm interested in making and keeping friends here, not losing them by being involved in something divisive. I said I'd help with the UG, but I don't want to wind up in the middle of a war.

The public face of the UG is shaping up into something that seems to me to be useful and not a threat to the EG. I think it will be successful in the short term and I certainly wish it the best of luck. Whether it survives in the long term probably depends on the mix of people involved and that's very difficult to predict.

The page called Ariadne's Ball of String A961788 contains relevant links.

The good thing about freespace is that the sound waves don't carry across fora. So if there's a war we needn't be aware of it.

Parasitic: ~IF~ the Under Guide is intended to supplant the Edited Guide while simultaneously depending on the EG for its web presence, then it's a parasite. I had thought that the UG was the response of a group of researchers to their perception of the EG's shortcomings. If it is not, then I would view it the same way I view any other club or organization with H2G2. I did mean the word 'parasitic' in a derogatory sense for that instance.

Further elucidation -- "supplant the Guide" -- If the UG editors are proceeding with a view to ignoring the established guide, or even spiting it, then that would consitute supplanting it. It would be like the case of those fellows in Texas who are trying to declare an independent state of Texas within the state, but still depending on the local gas stations, grocery chains and so forth for their life support.

If the worst is true, then the UG editors are so disgusted with the Italics that they have decided to anoint themselves Subscripts.


Most clubs etc. inside Hootoo, including the Blackfield Church Group (which doesn't exist), are broadly supportive of the EG. At the very least a place like the atelier provides a sense of being included. At best, I seem to remember our discussions giving impetus for a salonista to go off and write an article, more than once. But it's enough for a form/club to provide a milieu for fellowship.

Perhaps we should ask a UG editor to comment here.

Lil, I'll invite my friend Jodan to join this conversation. He and GTB are the editors. And where's abcBen? She's active in the UnderGuide. The researcher who first invited me to join several months ago is off on an adventure and isn't online much at the moment.

Thank you. I'll be back online about, oh *looks at clock* ... it's 2:30. About 8 hours from now.

>>'The UG Miners are essentially part of the Editorial Team'

The miners are a part of the UG Editorial team. I got an email from Ashley concerned with this sentence as well, and I'm intending to make it clear

>>I will be challenging those who want the UG to *replace* the EG

Who has said this? We consider the UG as equal to the EG, and seperate (Seperate but equal )