h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I think Starbirth is agitating, Anhaga. I'm not sure about Recrash. Would that person be Philippino?

Blues Shark makes a valid point about the topic. Perhaps it's a little unrealistic to expect people not to become vitriolic under the circumstances, however.

Nobody can take a joke about America anymore which probably says a lot about the state of mind of Americans. They're definitely taking themselves a tad too seriously I think, all except Starbirth of course.

As the only superpower left standing in a world rapidly falling on its face, I don't see much need for excessive pride or seriousness. Sort of like winning the championship because the opposing team failed to show up. If that convinces people that they've accomplished something meritorious, well, what can you say?

Ultimately, the American assertiveness you get must fall back on brute force. This is way it is because we say so. Corporate America has always been run this way when fraud failed. Recent history suggests a combination of fraud and brute force is being pursued at the moment. And it seems to be working, however, much depends on how much longer Americans can tolerate a six percent unemployment rate, inflation, flat stockmarket, and other "it's the economy stupid" issues and how much longer the world at large can suffer American corporate arrogance, deceipt, greed, corruption and violence.

Starbirth writes:

'Take heed its a tough room for those who would even suggest that
'America is not the cause of all the worlds problems"'

Seriously, is there anyone on this thread who would disagree with the statement "America is not the cause of all the world's problems"? Speaking as a Canadian, I would not blame the Americans for the collapse of the Newfoundland Cod Fishery. Nor would I blame them for the separation question in Quebec. And the present legal questions surrounding taxation and the First Nations of Treaty 7 are not caused (nor likely known about) by the Americans. I suspect that there is no one that would seriously argue that America is the cause of all the world's problems. Why would Starbirth misrepresent us in this way?

And again, I'm more than suggesting that America is not the cause of all the world's problems; I'm offering concrete examples of problems that do not have an American cause. And I feel quite confident that the room will not turn tough on me for it.

Why does Starbirth think it's a tough room?

(I'm Canadian, by the way. In my travels I've been more often mistaken for French or German than American. It's interesting to be seen as American here.)

Steve: "Nobody can take a joke about America anymore which probably says a lot about the state of mind of Americans. They're definitely taking themselves a tad too seriously I think, all except Starbirth of course."

There is a finite amount of vitriolic criticism that can be laughed off. It's only a matter of time before the mood of the target shifts towards the defensive anger portion of the emotional spectrum.

I disagree, Starbirth... in my view it's because you *expect* to be insulted, you're very prickly and defensive. In NZ terms, you 'have a chip on your shoulder'. You expect people to not agree with/like/or treat you well! Yet, you *can* be very pleasant sometimes!

"There is a finite amount of vitriolic criticism that can be laughed off. It's only a matter of time before the mood of the target shifts towards the defensive anger portion of the emotional spectrum."

Why does vitriolic criticism have to be laughed off?

I am Canadian. Watch.

Canada has cheated and lied to the First Nations living within its borders. My ancestors came her in the 1700's and took the land. I live on land that is still under dispute. There's a power plant in my city that keeps turning up a cemetary as they plan an expansion. Aboriginal people were finally given the vote in the 1960's. The South African government sent delegates to Canada to study our Indian Reservation system in order to make their Apartheid system work better. We took kids from their parents, forced them into boarding schools, told them they couldn't use their language and beat their culture out of them. I once attended a friend's wonderful, beautiful traditional Cree wedding. The grooms father conducted the ceremony. But a white Justice of the Peace stood waiting through the whole ceremony because it didn't count unless she had her say. I could go on for pages, as could any citizen of any country.

was I vitriolic enough? But look, I'm not laughing it off. I'm crying. Doesn't anyone else just cry? Starbirth, to his credit, offered condolences. I would have been horrified if he'd just laughed it off.

PS. Starbirth's condolences were on a different subject on a different thread. But it was still Starbirth.

"There is a finite amount of vitriolic criticism that can be laughed off. It's only a matter of time before the mood of the target shifts towards the defensive anger portion of the emotional spectrum."

Is this an immutable law of the universe or an admission that some people might have what might be called a more or less short fuse? I suspect we could find plenty of examples of people or nations that have been subjected to vitriolic whatever for much longer than America has existed but still don't find it necessary to respond with petulance.

No, I think a lot of Americans simply respond like spoiled brats. It's okay for them to make fun of or disparage others but not the other way around. The Iraqi and Afghan wars are a big joke to many. We'll see how funny it is after the real fighting, as opposed to the video game war, has been going on for awhile.

Amazing... after over 3000 posts, this thread is *still* on topic... is that a first?

Tango

I posted this on another thread this morning, but it also follows along from post 3045 so I'll repeat it here:

In 1993, a 16 year old Somali man, Akubar Shinade Arone (a name forever burned in my memory) was captured inside the Canadian
peace-keeping base in Belet-weyne Somalia. That night a number of the soldiers of the Canadian Airborne Regiment tortured and beat the
sixteen year old to death. Canada conducted lengthy criminal trials against the soldiers suspected to be responsible. One suspect
attempted suicide and was so nearly sucessful that he was declared unfit to stand trial. Despite the difficulty of a prosecution in which the
only witnesses are comrades of the accused, convictions were obtained.

In 1995 purile and disgusting videotapes of Canadian Airborne Regiment hazing activities surfaced. These proved to be the last straw for
a Regiment with an illustrious history. Canada shocked the military community of the world by taking harsh action unheard of anywhere
before or since. Showing that Canada thinks of its soldiers not as tools to do its dirty work, but as representatives to the world of
Canadian society, the Canadian Airborne Regiment was disbanded by Ministerial Order (against the recommendations of Military leaders),
it's soldiers reassigned to other units.

I'm still not laughing it off. I'm still crying. How many other military units should be disbanded by political leaders as a strong
demonstration of the values of a nation?

Ha! You berate your military - look at our high schools!

NYC Student:

I'm not sure I'm following you post.

I don't berate our military. I have nothing but respect for our military. Our military has provided admirable service in two World Wars, in Korea, in Iraq, in Afghanistan, and in countless peacekeeping operations. Thousands of Canadians have sacrificed their lives in these services, including in the peacekeeping operations.

I don't berate our military. I was remarking that our military is made up of representatives of our nation and its values. When representatives of our nation and its values start conducting themselves in ways out of step with our values, I am proud to say that our elected representatives have taken difficult decisions to state to the world what we stand for.

Tell me about your high schools, and tell me what you intend to do about them.

>>The Iraqi and Afghan wars are a big joke to many. We'll see how funny it is after the real fighting, as opposed to the video game war, has been going on for awhile.<<
Two words. David Letterman. (Maybe that's not fair and he's not representative.) But you have a very good point, Steve.

Firstly, this is the first conversation I've read since I joined the site, and the whole thing has been very interesting.
I can see where everyone is coming from on the rude tourist thing. People have told me stories about American tourists. As an American who has never travelled abroad, I wouldn't know firsthand. This year I have spent time with people on exchange from France, Hungary, and Germany, and they have all told me the problems people in their countries have with America and Americans. I have to say I see their point. A lot of Americans are obnoxious and ignorant, etc, etc. And sometimes the actions of the US government are enough to make me wish I was a citizen of any other country.
But then, there are obnoxious people in every country. I believe that the reason for our ignorance is the curriculum taught in our schools. Our programs in foreign language and in global history are, in general, horrible. Perhaps it is a good sign for the future that I and so many other Americans I know are bothered by that. Maybe there will be changes soon. I think it also says something that myself and so many of my friends have tried to correct this problem in our education by studying foreign languages and cultures on our own outside of school.
Also, I would like people's opinions on what, to me, seems like a contradiction: America is a "melting pot". We have so many different cultures represented, so many people who come from other countries, and so much pride in our individual heritages. So why are Americans in general so ignorant of the rest of the world, when we can find representatives of most of the rest of the world in our own communities?

i think that the reason so many people dislike america is because of our attitude that a: we own the world and b: the world sicks compared to us. in a nation built on constant self-examination, can we really afford to say we're the best and not change?

People still segregate themselves in the US for the most part, in neighborhood communities. It is more of a salad bar to me than a melting pot. There are a lot of tossed salads too!

We make it difficult to get by without English. There is a stigma and generally an economic loss for those whom do not read and speak English well.

This thread proves many Americans are willing to listen and discuss our faults. I do not see any other "Whats wrong with X country threads going 3000 posts"

It will take the rest of the world to help keep the US in line. It should not be surprizing all the Nations need to work together to solve world problems. All of our leaders do some things not popular with their voters.

Excuse me, but how could "a great sense of pride in America, and in American culture" come across as disrespectful and arrogant, and a great sense of pride in Great Britain, or Italy, or Spain, or France, or Germany, be perfectly okay?

Frankly, a lot of Yanks I've met aren't particulary proud of their country or their culture. Often, it just happens to be all they know, and they sort of assume the whole world is pretty similar. (Much easier assumption to fall into in a country that large.)

This is very strange. Here is a string of missives about Americans exhibiting a string of undesirable traits, not being "aware" of the rest of the world, being arrogant, rude, anti-social, etc. Yet, nobody has actually looked at the definition of their term.

Americans are white, black, increasingly hispanic and asian, of mixed ethnicity, and from countries around the globe. They are all immigrants (including "native americans") who have been arriving at every point in its history.

Each group went there with a language and a culture and added it to the mix. Americans use words daily from most every tongue devised; cook and eat meals of every ethnicity; design and wear clothing, and decorate with a multitude of influences; work beside people of other races and cultures in most every work environment in a huge and diverse country.

Critics of "Americans" don't realize that living in any sizable city there is almost like a constant trip to the U.N. A trip to a shopping center will expose you to art from around the planet, foods from diverse origins, and music of every style (including Scottish Rock).

There are not a people, anywhere, who are as used to just having to be so culturally aware and sensitive of their fellows (on the whole), largely because they are composed of all of us. When anybody insults the Americans they are, ipso facto, insulting some segment that is, or was, themselves.

This is very strange. Here is a string of missives about Americans exhibiting a string of undesirable traits, not being "aware" of the rest of the world, being arrogant, rude, anti-social, etc. Yet, nobody has actually looked at the definition of their term.

Americans are white, black, increasingly hispanic and asian, of mixed ethnicity, and from countries around the globe. They are all immigrants (including "native americans") who have been arriving at every point in its history.

Each group went there with a language and a culture and added it to the mix. Americans use words daily from most every tongue devised; cook and eat meals of every ethnicity; design and wear clothing, and decorate with a multitude of influences; work beside people of other races and cultures in most every work environment in a huge and diverse country.

Critics of "Americans" don't realize that living in any sizable city there is almost like a constant trip to the U.N. A trip to a shopping center will expose you to art from around the planet, foods from diverse origins, and music of every style (including Scottish Rock).

There are not a people, anywhere, who are as used to just having to be so culturally aware and sensitive of their fellows (on the whole), largely because they are composed of all of us. When anybody insults the Americans they are, ipso facto, insulting some segment that is, or was, themselves.

while it is true that we are composed of many different ethnic groups, most of those ethnic groups that aren't white are victims of racism. also, many towns and communities are composed almost entirely of one race. My town, for instance, is %99.8 WHITE. that's because almost the whole town is racist. once, a black person i know walked into our starbucks, and within ten minutes the police officer who was there getting his coffee was already asking "What do you think your doing here?"

actually, to tell you the truth, i think that is our biggest problem.

racism