h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

California seagulls are the ones in Northern Utah, where I grew up. They're not very afraid of humans there, believe me.



>>> Earthquake / construction accidents = collapsed buildings = people buried under rubble = using Rescue Dogs to find them = Your argument is invalid.

"The above are hardly normal urban environments. These specialist dogs are kept on military bases or separate from the Urban environment You seem bias or uninformed."


I'm not biased. And I'm not "uninformed," don't speak to me as though I'm stupid.

They're admittedly rare, but they're also extremely important and inevitable, and only a fool would ignore them. Looks like I've found one.




>>> Fox hunting = Your argument is invalid.

"Fox hunting and using dogs against wild animals is a criminal offence in the UK. In this you are definitely ill informed"


Am I?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_hunting#Current_status

I'm not only speaking of the U.K., in case it's somehow escaped your notice.




>>> Oh, I'm sorry, it appears our Seeing-Eye Dogs aren't willing to work for someone who things they're of no benefit to urban man. I guess you'll just have to make do on your own.

"The Guide Dog as it is known in the UK takes no side in the matter, you attempt to bestow an unattractive human trait upon these animals."


Oh and you're blind to sarcasm. 'Spose I should've guessed.




"They are an effective guide in all environments not merely urban, And rise above the term of dog."


Term? We're talking about a species, not a "term." This is like saying all illegal immigrants are a drain on society and then complaining when one of them saves your life because "Oh, no, that doesn't count. He's one of the 'good ones.'"




>>> That's not the dogs' fault!

"I fully agree but it dose however indicate our attitude to dogs and indicates that a part of our society regards them as disposable."


Yeah, and you're one of them. In your own words,

"Dogs are of negative value to nature and of little value to urban man (apart from the companionship aspect). If pet dogs were eradicated nature would not notice in fact it would be a benefit albeit a small one."


And it's spelled "does," by the way.




"This is a good discussion by the way"

I don't think so. Anyone who says dogs are a blight on the landscape isn't someone I want to talk to. Good day.

The native kit fox http://www.google.com/search?q=California+native+kit+fox%2C+images&oq=California+native+kit+fox%2C+images&aqs=chrome..69i57.21244j0j4&client=tablet-android-verizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&espv=1&ie=UTF-8 is protected everywhere in the state of California, not only against hunting, but real estate development and other use of the land may be halted if there's an encroachment on the kit fox range.

Coyotes, especially on margins of urban areas are often viewed as animal control problem since they prey on pets and can be a threat to small and especially infant children.

Basic wilderness and semi-wilderness area child safety rule, never leave an infant child unprotected out of doors even for an instant.

Hunting on horseback is permitted so long as one has the necessary licenses and permits for the hunt itself, but character of the hunt is very different from a large party undrrtaking a coursing.

Mounted hunting parties rarely run to more than 2 or 3 hunters.

Its also a low speed pedestrian affair, the horse providing transportation in rough country rather than a high speed chase.

Dogs are also allowed, to track and help find the prey, or retrieve it, but its rarely more than 1 to 3 dogs, occasionally as many as six if pups are being trained.

Locally, I've got 3 wild canid species, the coyote, typically about the size of a German shepherd, the desert wolf, typically about the size and build of an English sheep dog, with a shaggy, motley and brindled grey coat, and the Colorado Desert red wolf, measuring about 48 inches from nose tip to rump, not including tail, closely related to the Mexican brindled wolf, but without the brindling, with a flaming red coat about the color of the most flaming red human hair you may have ever seen, sometimes called 'the giant chihuahua' on account of its chihuahua-like head.

This last one is an exceptionally intelligent animal that will help out a human in trouble in its range so long as its not abused.

The most recent occasion I had a coyote problem, I went out for a walk a couple of hundred meters out into the open desert, late one afternoon, about sundown, found myself a likely creosote bush, lay down at the base of it, watched the sun set and the stars come out.

Then the coyote came and laid down on the other side of the bush and started howling.

At that point I got up and walked away.

The coyote moved down to an undeveloped tract on the nearby State Recreation Area.

I'm not biased. And I'm not "uninformed," don't speak to me as though I'm stupid

An impression that was not intended I just followed the tone of the previous post
I do appologise for giving you that impression

Anyone who says dogs are a blight on the landscape!

Dont remember saying that

A small minority of dog owners however might qualify

"Dont remember saying that."

...

"Dogs are of negative value to nature and of little value to urban man (apart from the companionship aspect). If pet dogs were eradicated nature would not notice in fact it would be a benefit albeit a small one."

"I explain rather than withdraw the comments."


...


I think the implication is clear.

Would you agree that some dog owners are zealots?

I met a dog who was a Zealot once. Used to be a Basenji until the missionaries got to him.

I think it's truer to say some *people* are zealots. Whether they're zealous about their dogs, their cats, classic cars, their offspring, it's their nature rather than their hobby making them so.

In the same way that some *people* are hideous, inconsiderate dog owners who give the rest of us a bad name by not cleaning up after their dog. I imagine they're just as hideous & inconsiderate in other areas of their lives.

Deb

"I understand the "ecology" thing, but the problem with pets is that they only participate in the ecosystem by destroying it. Waitrose have an aisle dedicated to cat and dog food, but they don't sell gull food." {Silicon Dioxide]

And ants keep other insects [aphids?] as herds so they can lick sweet secretions from them. We humans keep about 100 trillion microbes in our guts [ten microbes for every human cell, but I'm just guessing, and I might have misunderstood the exact numbers]. As for Waitrose, they are catering to owners of pet animals, not to wild animals. People who wish to feed squirrels usually buy the same nuts they would feed to themselves, so there's no need to have separately packaged squirrel food in another aisle.

As for keeping cats or dogs as pets, I've never done that. I've kept fish in aquaria, but I don't think that has a very big effect on the environment.

Lets hope this one is caught

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/daddy-protective-swan-stands-dog-130344536.html#thMpavo