h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

When their core beliefs are no longer popular shouldn't they just die out?

After the 2015 General Election in the UK, there has been talk on day 2 of the new government, of the Tories needing to occupy 'the middle ground' in order for the party to retain appeal with voters. This isn't traditional Tory ground.

At the same time, with the mess that the Labour Party has found itself in, there is talk of policy change in order to appeal to voters again.

In both cases, this seems to amount to changing what they think in order to retain power.

Shouldn't new beliefs or ways of thinking be taken on by new parties, a la The Greens and (however distasteful) UKIP?

PP.

It takes time but the do a party that dose not change and adapt will die out anyway.

The Whigs (Cromwlels supporters) are an example of that

I want Labour to go back to being what they are supposed to be. They are not Blue Labour or Tory-Lite. They are the freaking Labour Party. Only with the Power Mad Tony Blair and his crew they forgot who they are supposed to represent.

What the Tories do is up to them - if they have to soften their hard-line attitude to get votes, that's ok by me. But you're right - that's not being Conservative

So long as the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, they'll be happy.

Any elected MP is exposed to money and power ministres experiance even more exposure this must effect ideals and personal ambition. The tendency to go with the flow must be enormous.

An MP is elected to vote in Parliament an voting against the party has its problems.

two words: Dennis. Skinner.

The problem is that most parties are trying to stand in the middle of the political see-saw instead of occupying either end with opposing ideas.

What do political parties stand for?

During the campaign season, you could forgive me for assuming that they only care about being *against* something or someone. The mudslinging, the smear campaigns, the attack ads on radio and TV.

As for conservatives with or without hard hearts, I've met a fair share of self-styled conservatives who felt pretty mellow about life. They like doing traditional things and preserving what they like about the past. Most, if not all, are senior citizens. I've heard it said that if you're a conservative at 20, you have no heart, but if you're a liberal at 60, you have no brain.

Said by whom?

I was paraphrasing. The original version seems to have been

“If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain,” and has been attributed to Winston Churchill, but there are some who claim he never said it.
http://www.winstonchurchill.org/resources/quotations/quotes-falsely-attributed

it's one of those sayings that drives me bonkers. If you're not still caring and sharing (like children are, typically) when you're 20 you're a selfish git. If you're not a selfish git (trying to hang on to your pile) at 40 you're not being selfish or gitty enough.

Back in the '80s or maybe into the '90s in the States, when Republicans were running on being "tough on crime" and creating the outrageous, for profit prison systems we now have with huge prison populations, a popular saying was, "a democrat is just a republican who hasn't been mugged yet."

That saying has about as much validity as "there are no atheists in foxholes".

"it's one of those sayings that drives me bonkers" [Sho / Flo]

To me it just means that you need a head *and* a heart in order to get through life with any sense of self. One will have a bit more influence at one stage than at another, but both are still needed.

I'm not worried that anything will drive me bonkers. It's a short drive.

well now I'm *cough* approaching 40 *cough* I take it as an insult that I'm expected to be a selfish git, instead of believing that the social state is the right way to go.

Time to start reading Ayn Rand.

Approaching 40?


From which direction?

Did you mean "approaching 140" ?

... Oh hello, Slapping Hand. I've heard so much about you it feels like I already know you.

People talk a lot about how political parties are out of touch with the electorate nowadays. There's one way to stop it: join them, and make them work for us. Decide their policy, have a say in who they put forward to run for office, vote to decide who ends up leading them.