h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I'm in a discussion with someone (who is religious) about hospices and end of life care. And she has basically said that there are no atheist or humanist organisations that provide, for want of a better word, pastoral care in hospices and hospitals.

So that got me wondering: does anyone know if the Humanist Society, for example, provides that kind of care on a charitable basis?

Well, there's the Humanist Chaplaincy Network, off the top of my head. I'm sure there are others too. http://www.humanistchaplains.org/whatisit

I'm wondering if her statement means that ALL pastoral care is provided by religious organisations, or that the non-religious care providers aren't linked to a specifically non-religious organisation like the Humanists?

Deb

Without knowing what is entailed by "pastoral care," I felt that I needed to look it up, which I did in Wikipedia:

"Pastoral care is an ancient model of emotional and spiritual support that can be found in many cultures and traditions. It has been described in our modern context as individual and corporate patience in which trained pastoral carers support people in their pain, loss and anxiety, and their triumphs, joys and victories[."

If you delete the word "spiritual", you have a good description of what psychiatrists do. There are definitely some organizations to which psychiatrists belong, and there are HMOs that have psychiatrists on their staffs.

the quote is " I always think although of course atheists tend not to be very fond of volunteer work supporting the nearly-dead"

rather than getting out the slapping hand I just want to point out that she's talking rubbish but i need examples

yes I know what pastoral care is, what I want to find is examples of non religious organisations offering similar

What a smarmy little comment to make.

Cry havoc, and let slip the slapping hand.

it came hot on the heels of saying how awful someone would have to be to join the army...

Well, even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

>> and let slip the slapping hand. <<

... & all that will achieve is reinforce her belief of "atheist" behaviour ... maybe? In my book one should engage in discussion rather than let loose the wrath of the slapping hand of militancy.

I'm not particularly concerned with changing people's "perceptions of atheist behaviour". All the information is out there in the public domain for people to read and decide for themselves.

>> I'm not particularly concerned <<

That was the point - and I am pleased we agree on it.

I am also pleased we agree. (If I had been concerned, I would have admitted that I'm not an atheist. But I don't imagine that would make the rude person take a more positive view of atheists, or a more negative view of non-atheists.)

I quite like the post-modernist view that we each create our own truth and reality. I think the use of role models and engaging in debate and discussion is the best way to get people to reflect on their own views ... but ultimately you can't force people to change their views ...

I think your friend is more or less right - except for the government. Social workers in hospitals etc are, pretty much, non-religious pastoral care workers. Given your friend is probably thinking of "private sector" organisations, I would largely concede the point. However there are also organisations like (National) Societies for the Protection of Children which provide vast amounts of pastoral work within the more specific work they do. Many of these were founded as religious organisations (though not all) but I would find it hard to consider most of them religious now days.

Most of the psychologists, therapists and psychiatrists I know would say they do clinical work rather than pastoral.

I'm afraid it's more fundemental than that.

>> there are no atheist or humanist organisations that provide, for want of a better word, pastoral care in hospices and hospitals. <<

Following on from Phoenician Trader - if you are prepared to pay for it then I think suddenly you will find many people willing and able to provide for pastoral care no matter what their fundamental beliefs.

ps in the past the extended family & friends used to provide this "service".

I guess the secular parallel with pastoral care would be counsellors rather than psychologists...

In terms of other secular organisations offering pastoral care, a major one (in a UK Context at least) is the Samaritans (who are secular, in spite of the name...). Nightline, the student version, is also secular. In terms of hospice cancer care, Macmillan and Marie Curie Cancer Care are both secular.

Of course, the question was about "atheist", which is a slightly different question and is also probably the wrong question to ask. Atheists (and agnostics like me) don't organise themselves into exclusively atheist organisations to do good works - that would be exclusionary and pointless.

There's also the question about how much religious pastoral care is actually secular. Last time I was in hospital there was a Christian chaplain who did the rounds, and we had a brief conversation and he didn't mention God once. He spent rather more time with another chap on the ward who was a Christian, but didn't mention God to me once.

To be fair, though... religious belief provides a community structure which allows for the organisation of good works, for like-minded people to find each other, and perhaps even seedcorn funding and the use of premises. Religious beliefs can offer an additional spur to do good. And although there's now organisations like the Sunday Assembly, there's no real "godless" alternative in terms of infrastructure and community organisation.

Thanks this is all very interesting.

For me, my immediate reaction is the slapping hand because (yet again) I'm being lumped, as an atheist, with selfish, non-caring people. And that's not true of most people I know, theist or not.