h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Every worker has the right to withdraw their labour.
When they do it collectively in the form of a strike, should the employer take such action as each worker handing in their notice, and act in accordance with the respective terms and conditions of employment.

An employer can not "take such action as each worker handing in their notice", it is a logical impossibility. It would be like me "taking such action as my neighbour putting his underpants on."

Are you asking whether an employer should fire people for going on strike? If you are, then I would say "no".

KB you answer your own question. The question I asked is 'should' not 'can' and I fail to see the connection you make with you and your neighbours underwear. I take it current public sector strikes cause you no concern.

I was honestly confused. What you asked seemed to be logically the same as "should John take the course of action of Pauline eating Pauline's cream bun".

I think there are specific statutory regulations regarding strikes ... If the regulations have been adhered to then they can't be sacked - if they haven't been adhered to then they can be sacked. If a union is involved then I think the union can be sued for loss of earnings. If it is a low skill work and there is a pool of unskilled unemployed from which to draw from (either UK or EU) then it should be straight forward to get replacement labour. If it is in manufacturing it would be easier to relocate the factories into authoritarian states where the striker and his family can be literally disposed of.

"I take it current public sector strikes cause you no concern."

I take it current dismantling of public sector cause you no concern.

Then you are probably making assumptions which are probably incorrect.

The trouble with collective action is that collectively the good the bad and the indifferent are all tarred with the same brush. The individual public sector unions need to put their own houses in order recognising that all their members are not equal. Let them decide whether firemen are to be paid more than nurses and teachers should retire earlier than refuse collectors.

I am sorry but I am going to have to ask what you mean. Again.

Why do you think people should have to choose between doctors and firemen?

>> Let them decide whether firemen are to be paid more than nurses and teachers should retire earlier than refuse collectors <<

I think this can only be "decided" through full privatisation and finding out what the market "decides".

" If it is in manufacturing it would be easier to relocate the factories into authoritarian states where the striker and his family can be literally disposed of." [Stone Aart]

This option has been used so much in some industries [textiles & apparel, for instance] that shoppers with an interest in locally-sourced products can't find anything suitable. If transportation costs were three or four times what they are now, this kind of arrangement would become unprofitable, and more products would be made closer to the customers who want them.

"Re-inventing the wheel", it is sometimes called.

the problem with privatisation is it inevitably means someone wants to make a profit
and it probably wont be the firemen and nurses that it gets passed onto
and...
the way current privatisation seems to be going the government ends up paying for it anyway through different bribes and levies and such so it may as well be a public organisation anyway at least then it would be accountable to the public on some level

I believe public service workers should be able to strike I dont think we would be happy without any of these services point me to one you think is unessential? Even bin men need to be trained and its not a pleasant job but you'd soon notice if no-one did it. When many of these careers are facing real terms wage cuts at the same time as you see MPs giving themselves 11% more and bankers bonuses and such you can't blame them for being angry

I dunno, if I'd taken a 10% real terms pay cut in the last few years* whilst being told there was no prospect of one till 2020 and seeing those that actually caused this financial mess still swilling champagne (bankers et al.). I might perchance be a little disgruntled too.

They have my full support.







* amazingly I haven't despite being in a supposedly public sector job - although pay rises have been pretty slim but at least we advance up the increments each year - this is not the case in the civil service.

no prospect of a pay rise I mean

With regard to privatisation I was trying to tackle Ancient Brits statement: "Let them decide whether firemen are to be paid more than nurses and teachers should retire earlier than refuse collectors"

How does one decide relative pay and conditions between different public sector workers. I am not sure it can be done without the privatisation "leveller". My own thoughts are that each public sector union has to focus and fight for the best conditions for their individual members - that is how unions are supposed to work as far as I can tell.

This joining together of public sector unions to have a coordinated strike for one day - seems cost effective and most efficient to the economy - assuming their strike action is deemed "legal". Better to have it all done on one day than say spread over a week say, where different public sector workers strike on successive days.

Yep, maximum impact should be what a strike is all about. I'm a bit surprised our lot (UCU) didn't join in but I guess with it being out of term at universities the impact would have been less than it might be.

I rather liked the Union leader's riposte to Cameron's tactic of claiming a low turnout on the union ballots. He pointed out that the turnout was somewhat better than that that elected parliament (he was slightly ruder than that )

yes I liked that point too Orcus
if your going to demand minimum turnout for one part of what is arguably the democratic process why not for others such as general elections and so fourth

{How does one decide relative pay and conditions between different public sector workers?}

An excellent question. It would be great to introduce fair pay scales between public servants according to principles such as value, responsibility and skills, but would any government be prepared to do any tinkering with this when there would be losers as well as winners?

About the best we can hope for is that the most acute of the hard-working, low-paid sectors get a proper living wage. I fully support their industrial action when they clearly don't.

Living wage highlights some issues within the UK
a) geographic variability
b) affordable accommodation

Are there any controls on rents - in many places this is a main determinant of a "living wage". Housing benefit is often portrayed as going to the non-propertied elements of society, whereas in fact it goes to the property owners.