h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

so UKIP are talking about leaving the EU

if you are a UK national working in another EU country, will it be difficult for you to get a work visa?

If you are an EU national working in the UK what do you think?

For me - it might be the final straw that makes me chance my passport...

?

And the UKIP have influence how?

Have they kept a deposit in general election yet?
(they might have 1 or two MEP's maybe)

Likewise - and I've got the added pleasure in being in a country where the National Front get 15% of the vote!!!

Actually sadly they have control of a town council (), 13 MEPS but no parliamentary MPs.

Oddly enough they seem to do very well in elections that attract protest votes.


I wouldn't worry about them quite just yet though.

The nice new italian neurologist who has just started in our department..

And guess which paper supports a Fascist party?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2132611/French-elections-2012-Marine-Le-Pen-responsible-vote-France.html

I wish everyone would stop acting as if FN made some historic breakthrough in that round of the election. Their vote increased, yes, but it went up by maybe 1% from the 2002 election. Much as Le Pen junior is trying to paint it as some kind of new dawn, it really isn't.

As to the question: I think if the UK were to leave the EU, it would be the final shove I need to make me leave.

Sarkozy is being critizised by the media because his discurse now feeds on the postulates of the FN.
L´Humanité has compared him to Petain, and Sarkozy has said that “it´s an honour to be called fascist by a communist”

I really disagree with those who say, “don´t worry about them”. FN and other fascists groups in Europe are getting weight.
It´s not only that they are present in coalition with other politicians, there´s something else, which is still worse, from my POV:
not only Sarkozy, other politicians are using the populist arguments of those fascist groups, or putting them into practice (just like right now in Spain).

On the other hand the crazy policies from the EU are creating an anti-European feeling in the people. On my part, I´m not anti EU, I´m anti- ECB and anti Lisbon Treaty and … anti organisms that are serving markets instead of ordinary people.
It´s not difficult to see how mis-informed people can feel attracted by the populist demagogical discurse of the far-right.


When Sarkozy says that of "an honour to be called fascist by a communist", it tells how irresponsible he is. Fascists are crap, everywhere, everytime, as for communists, you need to be more precise. It´s not the same to say Mao than the PCE, the historical communist party of Spain (can´t say about France and Italy communist parties) which fought Franco and defended freedom and workers´rights.

At the risk of re-igniting an old hootoo debate...the success of far right parties is not measured by their electoral success. It is in the desperation of mainstream parties to capture their constituency. We don't even notice when it happens: fascist ideas become normal.

You heard it here first.

Incidentally...before the last European Parliament elections, I did a test (linked by TRiG, I think) which told me which European political party I was closest to,

Turns out I'm an Italian Communist.

It wasn't entirely a surprise. One of my early political influences was 'Marxism Today' which had distinct EuroCom leanings - Democratic Communism that recognises that Capitalism is here to stay. Strange to think I used to buy it from WH Smith.

I know there's some loonies in UKIP but they're not blackshirts yet are they?
How did this turn into talk of the fascists.

The talk of fascists started with the FN in France.

And no, I wouldn't call UKIP a fascist party. There certainly are fascists among them, though.

I was responding to the FN comment. They're not blackshirts either, of course. They're a mainstream, democratic party supported by a respectable British newspaper.

*However* I regard UKIP as part of the genteel drift rightwards. Can anyone tell me at what point in the drift I ought to worry?

- you lot!!

My point wasn't that the UK is going to leave, or that UKIP has a huge amount of influence (but it is increasing).

It was only a question about how people who ARE making use of the free movement of labour would handle it if it did happen.

The UKIP chappie on the Today programme this morning said he liked the free movement of capital and goods which is just cherry picking the bits he wants.

But I also agree with Maria and Ed. When the FN get nearly 20% of the vote, and Sarkozy needs to grab them, the way to do it is to lean his party a little in that direction. UKIP didn't use to have control of a council, now they do... slowly slowly catchee monkey and all

Bloody Brits. They go to other people's country, take their jobs...

I know we should all go home (and at least get to vote as well as pay a shedload of tax)

Come to Scotland! We need immigrants to build the future.

Hell - if they'll have me they'll have anyone.

If the UK did leave the EU the open border at Northern Ireland would get very weird.

TRiG.

Back to queuing at customs posts at Newry...

UKIP, for all their sins, are not far right. They're more Old, Old Tory with their fantasy of Glorious Isolation (forgetting the fact Britannia no longer rules the waves). As for why they matter: they're currently polling higher than a member of the coalition.

The UK leaving the EU would increase my support for Scottish independence and hasten my emigration to Scotland so long as they agreed to get rid of the two rank fishes at the top of the SNP.