h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

>>I may remind you, yet again sigh You were delibertaly paraphrasing a comments out of context

No, because you were not paraphrased.

>>... about the use of a short rope and a long drop as ooposed top the truely grotesque methods employed by the Taliban, to imply I was advocating execution without trial or defence.

You cannot attribute you own failure to put your words into the context of "short rope and along drop" when you yourself made no mention of it.
And the Taliban are non sequitur.

How is being beheaded by a sword and greater grotesque than having ripped off by a rope about your neck?


You made reference to supporting a swift "coup de grace", I asked you be clear about just what it was you were supporting and the process by which it was arrived at.
The relevant context being you claim that capital punishment would save money.

"In Kansas, death penalty trials cost 16 times more, and appeals 21 times more, than in non-death penalty cases."

"In California, the annual cost of the present death penalty system is currently $137 million USD. It would cost 70% more ($232m) if critical reforms - to ensure fair trials and eliminate wrongful convictions - were put in place. By contrast, a system of life without parole would cost $11.5m."

And in Maryland they've spent 37 million dollars per dead convict.


>>Several thousand heads pop off as they get to the end of their rope - swift if nothing else

If you overlook the trials and appeals and they don't commit suicide...


>>If post 44 with its allegations of mindless arrogance wasn't a personal attack JW, then I would like you to explain how?

I didn't accuse you mindless arrogance, I described your arguments as mindless. And I still do, because you have yet to make one that it isn't reasonable to dismiss as false, ie, it would save money, or based on fallacy such as emotional appeal i.e., what would the victim's families say, this criminal is a monster.
And so on.

Those are examples of paraphrasing. I think they are fair.

Arrogance comes into it because you are exploiting the families of the victims when you employ a appeal to what you expect their views to be, when their views have no bearing on the substance of what you are arguing for.

>>From my pespective the pendulm has swung to far toward the liberal elites policy of appeasement of wrong doers.

What "liberal elite"?
Which policy or policies are exemplar of this "appeasement"?

>>A policy it appears you whole heartedly support JW, I may be wrong.

I am not aware of the "appeasement of wrong doers" policy you are referring to, so can't comment on my support or lack of support for it.

<

Quite. We haven't figured out yet how to torture the soul.

back to the original topic

<>

in the middle ages bodies were buried for a term of about 30 years then only a skeleton remained and the recovered bones were kept in an ossory or charnel house and the graveyard reused,

since Victorian times we have been filling corpses with toxic preservatives and burying them in air tight sometimes lead lined caskets
so they have no hope of decaying, and as a consequense grave yards and cemeteries get bigger and bigger, and we develope energy using methods(cremetoria) for disposing of our worldly remains

if we went back to not using embalming fluids the pressure on finding extra space for cemeterys would dissipate, all dug up bones could be ground down and used on the flowers

What's the proportion of burials to cremations? Anybody know?

>>I think what we should be doing is making sure that a life sentence means life first and foremost.

I can live with that.

>>Life prisoners should be in a regime that is austere. Not wearing their own clothes but a formal prison uniform,

What useful purpose does this serve?
Who is paying for that uniform?

>> no tv's etc in cells.

Radios? Newspapers?

>>They shouldn't be sitting around or worse,

I can live with that, as long as they get reasonable rest periods.

>>getting access to higher education,

What useful purpose does denying them that serve?
Oughtn't they be learning to do something useful?
Wouldn't learning keep them docile?

>>use of fully fitted gyms etc.

What about basic gyms, so that they don't cost us more with their health problems?

>> I'd prefer to see them in chain gangs clearing ditches,

On public highways where their associates might turn up with some twelves bores, a van and a chain cutter?

>> breaking rocks.

The point of that being?

>>Prison should be punishment first, rehabilitation for non-lifers second.

Why?

Oughtn't the point of prison foremost be keeping scum away from the rest of us?
And second doing something to see that those get released are less mentally ill, less unemployable and less inclined to feel entitled to trouble us?

And the punishment comes from their being confined and compelled to comply with improving themselves?

<<>> breaking rocks.

The point of that being?>>

1 its a job, prisoners get paid to work
2 it gets them out of their cells
3 swing a hammer all day is healthy
4 negates the need for free weights and expensive gym equipment
5 tires them out, so they have a regular sleep pattern and are not watching jeremy kyle at 03:00hrs on itv 2+1
6 builds a good work ethic
7 produces a saleable product(gravel) the sale of which can help offset the cost of their incarceration
8 developes a healthy appetite
9 makes the time go faster
10 its character building
11 it provides them with life skills
12 it builds stamina

Cremations statistics in the UK: http://www.srgw.demon.co.uk/CremSoc4/Stats/National/ProgressF.html

Only 3 cremations in 1885. Quite surprising that.
Proportion of cremations first exceeded 1% of deaths in 1932.
In 1967 it first exceeded 50%.
Today it's still rising steadily, now 76%.

how much of a gas bill is all that burning, when 30 years in a field and no chemicals do the same job for practically no energy!!!

Gas AND electricity- crematoriums use cremulators or something... big tumble dryer with heavy metal balls in it -- to grind and turn the burnt bones to dust. Burning doesn't do the job.

<>

we could still use them to get rid of all the dug up bones

And on the subject of progress:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/176/467836393_6d3ca8bca0.jpg *

Deb

* with all credit, of course, to the highly talented Bill Watterson

Is 13 seconds enough revenge?

http://europeanhistory.about.com/od/thefrenchrevolution/a/dyk10.htm

Or perhaps 4 days?

http://www.springerlink.com/content/fyqah1dxarr18tm3/

Of course there's always poor quality materials-

http://www.indianexpress.com/oldStory/19317/

Progress is doing a fantastic job at the moment...

Progress means that my job, along with that of of four of my superiors are disappearing.

Three will be shifted sideways into more technically focussed areas, one may join them or take VR.

My job, should I choose to apply fo rit, will be doing about 70% of what one supervisor grade's been doing, ALL of what another supervisor grade's been doing and my own work as well.

For about 5k less a year once I've marked time and the others on the lower grade have caught up with me.

And this is all OKd by the union.

Progress is when your union climbs into bed with your manager and they plot a mass raping of the staff. Figuratively speaking.

And you know why? Because they decided they would save X amount of money before they ever saw the figures for the business and are determined to reach their target no matter what.

Cheers progress.

>Getting letters delivered before you left for work,

I'm interested in whether this has changed myself. Generally, we get mail around 9.30am but I can't remember if the situation was different 20-odd years ago because I was a kid and wasn't remotely interested in almost everything the postman brought. Can anyone enlighten.

>2 inches of cream at the top of the milk,

You can still get full-fat milk. What's happened is that consumer demand means there's a range of milks with different fat contents in two-pint plastic bottles. Full-fat glass one-pinters with the fat at the top might cause a nostalgic sigh but you can kind of see why they're fading out.

>standing with your mates to watch the match (and changing ends at half-time)

Don't go to footy matches so can't comment.

>buying a telly that lasted 20 years

TVs do still last, as long as people look after them and fix them when they develop faults. What's happened is we've become a decadent consumer society who replace instead of mend. I've got an old CRT telly which I've had for more than four years and which is a good bit older than that.

>cars made of steel not margarine tubs

There's a great video somewhere of an old-fashioned steel car crashing head-on into a modern car. The modern car's front crumples, the old car basically disintegrates. Modern cars are better in every conceivable way except possibly looks.

>margarine! not oxy-cholesty-omegy spreads,

Margarine itself was a rubbishy wartime alternative to butter, though. And many of the "buttery" spreads you can buy today taste quite nice.

>smoke at the pictures drifting across the projector.

You'll forgive me if I don't miss this.

*

There are some things I think we really have lost for the worst, though. Like a new band's first 'Top of the Pops' performance being a huge boost for their career (now we don't even have TotP any more); and repeats of "rarely shown" TV shows being a Big Deal (now you can just find them on YouTube and the like); and "bedroom programmers" writing video games themselves and getting them published and in the press (we still have "indie games" on the 'net, but there are so many most get ignored).

It depends where you live, as to what time your mail arrives, and I guess it always must have... if your near the start of the walk it'll be earlier... near the end of a long walk and it'll be later
I think my Father still gets his mail pretty early in the morning...

To be honest, I can't remember what time letters arrived in the 1980s. But I do remember having two deliveries every day instead of one.

Round here it's about 1.30pm. When I was a postie I was in the pub by 1, having completed two deliveries.

My first delivery was at 7am (there was some law I think that banned earlier deliveries). I finished my round of around 600 addresses at 9.45am - back to the office for a de-thaw, dry out and a coffee. Sort the local mail, go out on second delivery (first class letters only) at 11, finished by 12.30.

It was entirely feasible for a local letter to be posted and delivered in the same day.

For anything I send or have sent to me, two working days is about the minimum time now.