h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4353449.stm

I would certainly go for this method of execution.

These days the victims families are always being given counselling to get 'closure' (Dr Evil speech marks in the air). What better way of getting closure than helping to execute the perpetrator.

Let's assume the perpetrator definitely is known to be guilty so we do not get into a sub-discussion on innocent people being executed.

My spontaneous feeling is that it's sick.

It's bloodlust, and apart from killing the murderer, it is only spreading the pain of bereavement - one more mother now in mourning. I don't see it solving anything - it's just a spectacle of the most grotesque kind. It's Fourteenth Century justice that has the effect of brutalising society at large. It tends to legitimise the notion that if the government can do it, then why can't me and my mates go down to the witch across the road and burn her at the stake?

It also plays into the hands of people who feel that violence should be doled out liberally against all law-breakers - a mindset that also often applies to wayward children. Given the kind of crap that so many people had to deal with in institutions going back into the not-so-distant past, it's terrible to think that such beliefs still hold such sway.

It might seem fair given the individual involved (and I don't know how I would feel if my children were attacked in this way) but the Achilles heel of the death penalty has alway been the termination of a right to appeal.

I can't help feeling that the watchers had their party, saw their spectacle, but that they all feel a bit dirty and grubby now as a result. That's how I would feel, no matter how much I thought the bas**rd deserved it.

Woodpigeon

Agree with Woodpigeon, I think the way in which we treat criminals, and our 'enimies' tells us a lot about the society in which we live, and this isn't saying anything good about society.

It is not justice it is merely revenge.

And then only on the part of those bereaved. for others involved, well who knows what motivates them. Perhaps those who took part it attempted lynchings of paediatricians in the UK know the mentality.

Although much is made of the victims feelings these days one must always bear in mind that the victim should *never* be the one to choose the punishment. Justice should be a proportionate penalty to the crime and the victim and their friends and relations will rarely be in the best position to judge what it reasonable.

Of course no system is prefect but that is, well.... it speaks for itself really.

Personally I have wished many times that I could deal my own brand of justice out to those who have harmed my family and my friends (especially the biker-snatcher who robbed my best mate in my presence), but... Well, I agree with what Woodpigeon said about it amounting to bloodlust. By allowing victims or the families of victims to decide on the punishment or participating in it, you're sowing the seeds of violence in society (and God knows there's plenty of that as it is). It kind of becomes a vicious cycle: the predators and murderers inflict violence upon the victim; the family inflicts further violence upon the guilty. And, given that each set of victims is probably going to decide on a different method of execution/torture, you don't have a 'standard' set of punishments - what you're probably going to get is an escalating series of violence, like, These parents did this-and-this to the guy who raped their daughter; that b****rd inflicted greater violence upon my kid, so he deserves worse than that other guy. (okay, maybe not to those extremes, but you probably see what I'm getting at). Eventually you're going to get a lynch mob practicing their own brand of the lynch law, dealing out 'justice' as it sees fit, out of the control of authority.

Justice should be dealt out by a third party, and never involving emotions.

What do you call a High Court Judge with no fingers?

Justice Thumbs

ahhh fanu

*exits stage left*

I agree with all of you. This is one of those issues that I still haven't been able to reach an integrated opinion on. I think it's uncivilized and barbaric to torture and kill people for their crimes, and I also think there's a kind of justice in it, especially in circumstances like this one.

In a way it *does* solve the problem because that guy will *not* be able to continue to kill kids. It's an expedient solution, because society in general will not have to bear the expense of keeping him alive, healthy and safe until he dies. If there were unlimited resources to do so it wouldn't bother me as much, but when I think about the money that goes into supporting life-sentence and death row criminals here in the US it burns me up, because they're guaranteed a better standard of living (in terms of survival and comfort) than many law-abiding citizens are able to afford for themselves.

Overall, I think it's a better choice to treat criminals in a civilized manner, but that doesn't dissolve my other concerns.

Once you deal out violence in a non-self-protection way, then you have changed. You will nearly always find it easier to deal out violence again, in the same manner. If the first occasion was to stab your childs murderer, then the second maybe to stab a suspected child murderer, who may turn out to be innocent. Its a slippery slope.

*shakes head*

Is that it Xanatic?

I admit its very much my personal opinion, but I feel to be violent towards such a person, degrades you and takes you down to their level, does it solve anything? I would be very interested to know whether anyone in that position was happy that they got to be violent towards the person, or whether they regretted it later on.

If they were happy to have been violent, did it change them, did they exhibit more violent behaviour after the occasion than before?

All I have time for right now, I'm printing chemistry notes.

Okay!

I would be very interested though in hearing any after effects of such types of justice. In the US I know victims families can watch the execution, I wonder if they have spoken afterwards of whether they were glad to do so, and whether they were still glad some years later.

I would worry though of regrets creeping in years afterwards, surely thats too much to deal with on top of the grief for your family member?

Judging by the thousands of people who were hanged in public at Tyburn, no I don't think this works as a deterrant.

We're all getting worked up about another country doing this, but it's only about 130 years since we stopped hanging people in front of crowds of spectators after dragging the poor sods through the streets for miles. And that was only stopped because the crowd was getting out of hand!

I'm of the opinion that I'd like murderers and rapists etc to stay alive and in prison for as long as possible, so that they suffer the consequences of their actions a long time. I hate it when they kill themselves.

I'm practically trembling with rage right now , so in an attempt to stop myself from storming out on a vigilante bloodquest to hunt down the b****rd, I shall instead tell everyone here what's just happened:

I just learnt that my cousin Jason, who's here to do company auditing, and two of his colleagues were robbed this morning by their cab driver. Apparently, the last four days had gone by without incident; today, when they boarded the cab, the guy said that he was going to take an alternative route to beat the jam. Fine. Only his 'route' took them to a deserted housing estate where, to their horror, he pulled out a knife on them and demanded their wallets and their handphones. (Their company briefcases and laptops were in the boot of the cab). Jason, who fortunately had $500 in a pocket, surrendered the money to the guy, and was thus able to hang on to his wallet; the two females weren't as lucky. Needless to say, the guy sped off after robbing them; moments later they saw his car turning back, whereupon they fled into the only home whose gate was open. Thank God for them.

Unfortunately for the auditing team, they've still got one state to cover, which means that Jason and another male colleague are going to have to go down there, while the girls remain here. We haven't told his sister about it yet on account of the fact that she's sitting for her finals.



Yes, I believe that families of victims should *not* be allowed to deal out their own brand of 'justice' and punishment in the event that they catch the guilty party; however, it's not exactly stopping me from fantasizing about throwing that b****rd to vicious, starving Rottweilers right now.

Farlander

Your emotional reaction is the precise reason that justice should be in the hands of others than the victims and their families.

Personally I find the Iran story particularly barbaric. The flogging was completely unnecessary on the basis that the guy was going to be killed anyway and to hang someone in that manner makes it worse.

A life sentence in one of their prisons would have been a far more appropriate punishment!



turvy

Well I think murder is murder, and by rights I think this guys family should find those who stabbed and flogged then hung there son and deal the same justice out to them.

Life should mean life also, and that is where that guy should be locked up for the rest of his natural life

I agree, Turvy. The way we're all feeling right now, I don't think any of us are in any position to determine on a punishment for the criminal - if anything, it would likely be horribly violent, gruesomely bloody and probably a case of the 'justice' far, far exceeding the extent of the crime. It's not something I think I could live with, anyhow. People who are emotionally involved should not be given knives.

I'm gonna go grab a now and play something relaxing and therapeutic... like maybe Max Payne.

I so agree with you, Woodpigeon..

Experience changes everything. And one rule for every country cannot work until all countries are in similar conditions.

Do I want to see people publicly executed? No. Soap Operas already ruin my dinner, thank you very much.
Do I think current laws are working? Definitely not. Criminal Justice is just that - justice for the criminals.

I live in South Africa. Wonderful country, but crime is thickly woven into the fabric of this society. Our constitution includes more protection for criminals than it does for victims, in an attempt to be fair and compassionate. Our prisons are close to 200% capacity with no rehabilitation whatsoever in most of them.

We spend R 7 Billion annually on the upkeep of prisoners...and a similar amount on education in schools. We have 40% unemployment...so crime is a career option for many people.

Weigh up the odds....you're living in a shack, or on the street. If you commit a crime and get away with it....you end up with something you didn't have....possibly a means to a meal. If you get caught....you go to jail. Sheltered accommodation. 3 meals a day....blankets.

Wow. That sounds like a deterrent, doesn't it?

Will the return of the death penalty deter people from committing crimes? I can’t say for sure, but many people here are so fed up that they will now try anything.

Just over a year ago, 4 teenagers (about 15 years old) broke into my home, getting through an electric fence, high walls, security gates, etc….and attacked my girlfriend and I in our bedroom at 3 in the morning. We were both naked when they ripped the covers off the bed, exposing us completely. Our country has a horribly high incidence of rape, so my first reaction was to jump towards them and get them out of the bedroom and away from her. They rewarded me by putting a 9mm gun to my head and pulling the trigger.

One year of surgeries and recovery, and I’m getting back to life. My girlfriend wasn’t raped. I have a titanium jaw to replace what was blown out of my head. My biggest loss??? I can’t kiss my girlfriend properly because I can’t open my mouth wide enough to get some decent tongue action.

These kids were never caught. Very little was done by the police. And I swing from days when I realise that punishment is not an effective form of redress…to days when I really want to hurt them. That’s reality. I know where my peace lies…..but I’m not always at peace.

So how would you feel?

<>

That's understandable.