h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Simulpost!

And how will a Role Playing Game protect you in the real world, Anhaga?

quasi-simulpost, zoomer.


(I've got to open that jar of beans now.)

Can we keep up the simulposts?

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2004/11/27/navy_video041127.html

FNA! There was a quote on the radio today about how we have to make naval vessels NOW before we suffer *Rust Syndrome* on the ones we presently use. It seems that it takes a long time to make the suckers. But why can't we just call it *Falling Apart*?

"Rust Syndrome" is far more PC than "Falling Apart"

http://www.sorryeverybody.com


http://www.werenotsorry.com


Oh, and...


http://www.kerrysucks.com


Search the internet, I dare say there will be a bush sucking site about.

http://www.pigdog.org/categories/canadia_sucks.html

Symantec Corporation won't let me look at that.

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Access Denied
The requested document, http://www.pigdog.org:8080/Display?what=blocked.mhtml, will not be shown.

Reason: Found in Denied List (Sex/Acts). Entry causing block is pigdog.org.
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Bloody American *bum-bot* software!

So to answer post one: "No."

is this thread about the united states or are we talking about something else that i have absolutely no clue about?

Having "no clue" would indeed put you in with the Americans or at leat 50(ish)% of them.

Just happens there was some pointing out that many places are a 'pig-dog' to come from, or at least there are web-sites that promote that idea.

hey jab, where do you live?

Now, now folks, let's play nice.

Does anyone outside of Canada care that Dubya is visiting Canada today?

depends what you do with him whilst you have him!

>We came together because of our moral values: care and responsibility, fairness and equality, freedom and courage, fulfillment in life, opportunity and community, cooperation and trust, honesty and openness. We united behind political principles: equality, equity (if you work for a living, you should earn a living) and government for the people--all the people.

I think the idea that makes America great is liberty. We should be free to act without government meddling or oppressive taxation. Private citizens can be innovative and find their own ways to live and work. We don't need the government to ensure living wages. If you don't make a living wage, then make changes in your life so that you do. It's not that hard.

Americans have been an independent and self-sufficient lot. We find our own way to prosperity, and we've become a rich nation. Even those in poverty live pretty well.

Government is not what has made this country great, it's our lack of it. The people made this country great.

The government is what's threatening this nation. The federal government is a huge drain. Our prosperity is being restrained by outrageous federal deficits, brought on by politicians who are buying votes with tax dollars. Welfare (both personal and corporate), social security, pork barrel spending are all dragging us down.

We have a particular problem because we won't go for wholesale socialism like the Europeans. Instead we go for silly half measures, like the Earned Income Tax Credit or Medicare. It might be cheaper if we just paid for healthcare and a living wage outright, but that would drain the incentive for the creativity and innovation that keeps us going. Our semi-welfare state is killing us.

I think we should cut out our welfare programs. We're probably stuck with some social security because we've made our elderly dependent on government handouts. But there's no reason for anyone under the age of 50 to use it in their retirement planning.


If the states want to innovate, and have socialized medicine or wage supports, let them, but leave the rest of the country to forge ahead free from the burden of socialism. Maybe things will work out well for the blue states.

Now, I'm not totally unsympathetic. There are people out there who are so handicapped that they can't support themselves. I don't have a problem with helping them. However, the able bodied should work or die. Even that isn't likely. Bums standing on interstate ramps must make decent money. I've seen them hauling cases of beer back to their camps. We also have a bankruptcy system that is essentially a corporate sponsored welfare system.

I think liberty is what makes the United States great. Democrats, and to a lesser extent republicans, are dragging us down with government solutions to personal problems. We'd be far better off if the federal government would limit itself to the functions of government laid out in the Constitution.

Interesting. So you truly believe that the only valid indicators of liberty are rampant capitalism, eat or be eaten social security, and work or die rules?

Is there no other country on earth that has worked? No other government, no other people? The US is the only land of the free? The only peoples who are happy? You know that isn't true, and you know that there is a difference between socialism and social democracy.

Why shouldn't there be a common good, with income assistance and incentive to capitalise hand-in-hand? It exists elsewhere in so many different forms to be dizzying. Do you honestly believe that all those governments and people failed? The only difference I see between them and the US is good old fashioned greed. Wanting it ALL instead of enough.

"We came together because of our moral values: care and responsibility, fairness and equality, freedom and courage, fulfillment in life, opportunity and community, cooperation and trust, honesty and openness. We united behind political principles: equality, equity (if you work for a living, you should earn a living) and government for the people--all the people.

These are traditional American values and principles, what we are proudest of in this country."

The above is what I came to praise about the U.S.

Sorry, Two Bit, but I can't praise the fiction of personal liberty being the source of the present prosperity of the U.S. The true history is not one of U.S. citizens quietly and independently producing wealth right there in the thirteen colonies. Rather, the truth is that the Federal government constantly reached beyond the borders to force resources into its control and then turn those resources over to U.S. citizens to exploit. If the U.S. government had not taken the resources of neighbouring peoples, without compensation, from the Cherokee to Gatemala under the United Fruit Company to Iraq under Alawi, U.S. prosperity would be something very different.

I don't come to praise U.S. liberty: liberty is a pretty common thing in today's world. I wanted to praise the traditional U.S. values that were outlined above and in the first post.

I think capatalism is a pretty good system, and it should be allowed to work. Taking money out of private hands to subsidize people for being lazy doesn't hurts keeps one person unproductive and unjustly taxes the productive taxpayer. If you susbisidze something, you'll get more of it. So what happens when you subsadize a person who does nothing?

Obviously there are more socialist nations, and they don't crumble. It works, but I think a more capatilist society system works better. I think that's why we have the high standard of living that we do in the US.

'care and responsibility, fairness and equality, freedom and courage, fulfillment in life, opportunity and community, cooperation and trust, honesty and openness...equality'

These things are like puppies. Everybody supports them, leftists and republicans all support these ideas. The devil is in the details. We say we like responsibility, but do we make individuals responsible for their own welfare, or will we give them handouts from the public treasury. Why do we have local governments spending millions to build sports stadiums so that millionares can play baseball for profit? Why aren't they responsible for themselves?

'equity (if you work for a living, you should earn a living) and government for the people--all the people.'

These are the things that concern me. If a person doesn't think they're getting a fair wage, then they should negotiate, quit, or accept it. I don't think the government should interfere in the agreements made by employers and employees unless a contract is broken.

Government should try to protect us from criminals and provide courts to settle civil claims. I don't think it needs to be there to protect us from making poor decisions.

Has the US had a really profitable war in the last century? I suppose WWI, WWII, Korea, and the Gulf War preserved allies from enemies and kept them as trading partners. I don't know that we've really made any money off war though. Now some private corporations have profitted from the expereince. I would be amazed if we ever see a dime of profit from Iraq.

To me liberty means the ability to lead a life without interference from government until I do something that harms another, deprives another of a property right, or endangers anothers person or property. Aside from that, government should be there to protect us from ourselves nor restrain us from exploring our full potential.

i have my own ideas about what our government should be doing for us, taking care of the poor iraqis is not one of them. i am a native american and have seen the government step all over my people and give them a desert to live in. now in california, we have tribes that are making good money for their people and for the state but now that they are making alot of money, our governator wants them to pay 3 times the amount that any other business is paying for taxes. is that fair? why do millionaires pay less taxes than us? why did our government employees get flu shots before anyone else? there arent any good politicians out there, they are like maggots that eat the flesh of hard working people and get paid a hefty amount of money to do so. i enjoy the liberties of living in this country and i appreciate them as my father, his father, and his fathers before him all fought for me and my children to have. i would like to see my children have a life to enjoy without watching the airstrikes on the 6 o'clock news blowing the crap out of the rock garden they call iraq.
theres got to be better ways of doing this without all the bloodshed.

Non profitable wars? Profits to who, the government? Or the corporations and those who run them?

Here's the list. Now I hope you'll agree that a lot of these are nothing more than reactions, altruistic actions in the name of humanity, and/or strictly political. But wouldn't you agree that a helluva lot more of them are economic moves?


SOUTH DAKOTA 1890 (Troops) 300 Lakota Indians massacred at Wounded Knee.

ARGENTINA 1890 (Troops) Buenos Aires interests protected.

CHILE 1891 (Troops) Marines clash with nationalist rebels.

HAITI 1891 (Troops) Black revolt on Navassa defeated.

IDAHO 1892 (Troops) Army suppresses silver miners' strike.

HAWAII 1893 (Naval, troops) Independent kingdom overthrown, annexed.

CHICAGO 1894 (Troops) Breaking of rail strike, 34 killed.

NICARAGUA 1894 (Troops) Month-long occupation of Bluefields.

CHINA 1894-95 (Naval, troops) Marines land in Sino-Japanese War.

KOREA 1894-96 (Troops) Marines kept in Seoul during war.

PANAMA 1895 (Troops, naval) Marines land in Colombian province.

NICARAGUA 1896 (Troops) Marines land in port of Corinto.

CHINA 1898-1900 (Troops) Boxer Rebellion fought by foreign armies.

PHILIPPINES 1898-1910 (Naval, troops) Seized from Spain, killed 600,000 Filipinos.

CUBA 1898-1902 (Naval, troops) Seized from Spain, still hold Navy base.

PUERTO RICO 1898 (Naval, troops) Seized from Spain, occupation continues.

GUAM 1898 (Naval, troops) Seized from Spain, still use as base.

MINNESOTA 1898 (Troops) Army battles Chippewa at Leech Lake.

NICARAGUA 1898 (Troops) Marines land at port of San Juan del Sur.

SAMOA 1899 (Troops) Battle over succession to throne.

NICARAGUA 1899 (Troops) Marines land at port of Bluefields.

IDAHO 1899-1901 (Troops) Army occupies Coeur d'Alene mining region.

OKLAHOMA 1901 (Troops) Army battles Creek Indian revolt.

PANAMA 1901-14 (Naval, troops) Broke off from Colombia 1903, annexed Canal Zone 1914.

HONDURAS 1903 (Troops) Marines intervene in revolution.

DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1903-04 (Troops) U.S. interests protected in Revolution.

KOREA 1904-05 (Troops) Marines land in Russo-Japanese War.

CUBA 1906-09 (Troops) Marines land in democratic election.

NICARAGUA 1907 (Troops) "Dollar Diplomacy" protectorate set up.

HONDURAS 1907 (Troops) Marines land during war with Nicaragua.

PANAMA 1908 (Troops) Marines intervene in election contest.

NICARAGUA 1910 (Troops) Marines land in Bluefields and Corinto.

HONDURAS 1911 (Troops) U.S. interests protected in civil war.

CHINA 1911-41 (Naval, troops) Continuous occupation with flare-ups.

CUBA 1912 (Troops) U.S. interests protected in civil war.

PANAMA 1912 (Troops) Marines land during heated election.

HONDURAS 1912 (Troops) Marines protect U.S. economic interests.

NICARAGUA 1912-33 (Troops, bombing) 10-year occupation, fought guerillas.

MEXICO 1913 (Naval) Americans evacuated during revolution.

DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1914 (Naval) Fight with rebels over Santo Domingo.

COLORADO 1914 (Troops) Breaking of miners' strike by Army.

MEXICO 1914-18 (Naval, troops) Series of interventions against nationalists.

HAITI 1914-34 (Troops, bombing) 19-year occupation after revolts.

DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1916-24 (Troops) 8-year Marine occupation.

CUBA 1917-33 (Troops) Military occupation, economic protectorate.

WORLD WAR I 1917-18 (Naval, troops) Ships sunk, fought Germany for 1 1/2 years.

RUSSIA 1918-22 (Naval, troops) Five landings to fight Bolsheviks.

PANAMA 1918-20 (Troops) "Police duty" during unrest after elections.

HONDURAS 1919 (Troops) Marines land during election campaign.

YUGOSLAVIA 1919 (Troops) Marines intervene for Italy against Serbs in Dalmatia.

GUATEMALA 1920 (Troops) 2-week intervention against unionists.

WEST VIRGINIA 1920-21 (Troops, bombing) Army intervenes against mineworkers.

TURKEY 1922 (Troops) Fought nationalists in Smyrna.

CHINA 1922-27 (Naval, troops) Deployment during nationalist revolt.

HONDURAS 1924-25 (Troops) Landed twice during election strife.

PANAMA 1925 (Troops) Marines suppress general strike.

CHINA 1927-34 (Troops) Marines stationed throughout the country.

EL SALVADOR 1932 (Naval) Warships send during Marti revolt.

WASHINGTON DC 1932 (Troops) Army stops WWI vet bonus protest.

WORLD WAR II 1941-45 (Naval, troops, bombing, nuclear) Hawaii bombed, fought Japan, Italy and Germay for 3 years; first nuclear war.

DETROIT 1943 (Troops) Army put down Black rebellion.

IRAN 1946 (Nuclear threat) Soviet troops told to leave north.

YUGOSLAVIA 1946 (Nuclear threat, naval) Response to shoot-down of US plane.

URUGUAY 1947 (Nuclear threat) Bombers deployed as show of strength.

GREECE 1947-49 (Command operation) U.S. directs extreme-right in civil war.

GERMANY 1948 (Nuclear Threat) Atomic-capable bombers guard Berlin Airlift.

CHINA 1948-49 (Troops/Marines) evacuate Americans before Communist victory.

PHILIPPINES 1948-54 (Command operation) CIA directs war against Huk Rebellion.
PUERTO RICO 1950 (Command operation) Independence rebellion crushed in Ponce.

KOREA 1951-53 (-?) (Troops, naval, bombing , nuclear threats) U.S./So. Korea fights China/No. Korea to stalemate; A-bomb threat in 1950, and against China in 1953. Still have bases.

IRAN 1953 (Command Operation) CIA overthrows democracy, installs Shah.

VIETNAM 1954 (Nuclear threat offered) French offered bombs to use against seige.

GUATEMALA 1954 (Command operation, bombing, nuclear threat) CIA directs exile invasion after new gov't nationalized U.S. company lands; bombers based in Nicaragua.

EGYPT 1956 (Nuclear threat, troops) Soviets told to keep out of Suez crisis; Marines evacuate foreigners.

LEBANON l958 (Troops, naval) Marine occupation against rebels.

IRAQ 1958 (Nuclear threat) Iraq warned against invading Kuwait.

CHINA l958 (Nuclear threat) China told not to move on Taiwan.

PANAMA 1958 (Troops) US flag protests erupt into confrontation.

VIETNAM l960-75 (Troops, naval, bombing, nuclear threats) Fought South Vietnam revolt & North Vietnam; one million killed in longest U.S. war; atomic bomb threats in l968 and l969.

LAOS 1962 (Command operation) Military buildup during guerrilla war.
CUBA l961 (Command operation) CIA-directed exile invasion fails.

GERMANY l961 (Nuclear threat) Alert during Berlin Wall crisis.

CUBA l962 (Nuclear threat, naval) Blockade during missile crisis; near-war with Soviet Union.

PANAMA l964 (Troops) Panamanians shot for urging canal's return.

INDONESIA l965 (Command operation) Million killed in CIA-assisted army coup.

DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1965-66 (Troops, bombing) Marines land during election campaign.

GUATEMALA l966-67 (Command operation) Green Berets intervene against rebels.

DETROIT l967 (Troops) Army battles Blacks, 43 killed.

UNITED STATES l968 (Troops) After King is shot; over 21,000 soldiers in cities.

CAMBODIA l969-75 (Bombing, troops, naval) Up to 2 million killed in decade of bombing, starvation, and political chaos.

OMAN l970 (Command operation) U.S. directs Iranian marine invasion.

LAOS l971-73 (Command operation, bombing) U.S. directs South Vietnamese invasion; "carpet-bombs" countryside.

SOUTH DAKOTA l973 (Command operation) Army directs Wounded Knee siege of Lakotas.

MIDEAST 1973 (Nuclear threat) World-wide alert during Mideast War.

CHILE 1973 (Command operation) CIA-backed coup ousts elected marxist president.

CAMBODIA l975 (Troops, bombing) Gas captured ship, 28 die in copter crash.

ANGOLA l976-92 (Command operation) CIA assists South African-backed rebels.

IRAN l980 (Troops, nuclear threat, aborted bombing) Raid to rescue Embassy hostages; 8 troops die in copter-plane crash. Soviets warned not to get involved in revolution.

LIBYA l981 (Naval jets) Two Libyan jets shot down in maneuvers.

EL SALVADOR l981-92 (Command operation, troops) Advisors, overflights aid anti-rebel war, soldiers briefly involved in hostage clash.

NICARAGUA l981-90 (Command operation, naval) CIA directs exile (Contra) invasions, plants harbor mines against revolution.

LEBANON l982-84 (Naval, bombing, troops) Marines expel PLO and back Phalangists, Navy bombs and shells Muslim positions.

GRENADA l983-84 (Troops, bombing) Invasion four years after revolution.

HONDURAS l983-89 (Troops) Maneuvers help build bases near borders.

IRAN l984 (Jets) Two Iranian jets shot down over Persian Gulf.

LIBYA l986 (Bombing, naval) Air strikes to topple nationalist gov't.

BOLIVIA 1986 (Troops) Army assists raids on cocaine region.

IRAN l987-88 (Naval, bombing) US intervenes on side of Iraq in war.

LIBYA 1989 (Naval jets) Two Libyan jets shot down.

VIRGIN ISLANDS 1989 (Troops) St. Croix Black unrest after storm.

PHILIPPINES 1989 (Jets) Air cover provided for government against coup.

PANAMA 1989 (Troops, bombing) Nationalist government ousted by 27,000 soldiers, leaders arrested, 2000+ killed.

LIBERIA 1990 (Troops) Foreigners evacuated during civil war.

SAUDI ARABIA 1990-91 (Troops, jets) Iraq countered after invading Kuwait. 540,000 troops also stationed in Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE, Israel.

IRAQ 1990-? (Bombing, troops, naval) Blockade of Iraqi and Jordanian ports, air strikes; 200,000+ killed in invasion of Iraq and Kuwait; no-fly zone over Kurdish north, Shiite south, large-scale destruction of Iraqi military.

KUWAIT 1991 (Naval, bombing, troops) Kuwait royal family returned to throne.

LOS ANGELES 1992 (Troops) Army, Marines deployed against anti-police uprising.

SOMALIA 1992-94 (Troops, naval, bombing) U.S.-led United Nations occupation during civil war; raids against one Mogadishu faction.

YUGOSLAVIA 1992-94 (Naval) NATO blockade of Serbia and Montenegro.

BOSNIA 1993-? (Jets, bombing) No-fly zone patrolled in civil war; downed jets, bombed Serbs.

HAITI 1994-? (Troops, naval) Blockade against military government; troops restore President Aristide to office three years after coup.

ZAIRE (CONGO) 1996-97 (Troops) Marines at Rwandan Hutu refugee camps, in area where Congo revolution begins.

LIBERIA 1997 (Troops) Soldiers under fire during evacuation of foreigners.

ALBANIA 1997 (Troops) Soldiers under fire during evacuation of foreigners.

SUDAN 1998 (Missiles) Attack on pharmaceutical plant alleged to be "terrorist" nerve gas plant.

AFGHANISTAN 1998 (Missiles) Attack on former CIA training camps used by Islamic fundamentalist groups alleged to have attacked embassies.

IRAQ 1998-? (Bombing, Missiles) Four days of intensive air strikes after weapons inspectors allege Iraqi obstructions.

YUGOSLAVIA 1999 (Bombing, Missiles) Heavy NATO air strikes after Serbia declines to withdraw from Kosovo. NATO occupation of Kosovo.

YEMEN 2000 (Naval) USS Cole bombed.

MACEDONIA 2001 (Troops) NATO forces deployed to move and disarm Albanian rebels.

UNITED STATES 2001 (Jets, naval) Reaction to hijacker attacks on New York, DC

AFGHANISTAN 2001-? (Troops, bombing, missiles) Massive U.S. mobilization to overthrow Taliban, hunt Al Qaeda fighters, install Karzai regime. Forces also engaged in neighboring Pakistan.

YEMEN 2002 (Missiles) Predator drone missile attack on Al Qaeda, including a US citizen.

PHILIPPINES 2002 (Troops, naval) Training mission for Philippine military fighting Muslim Abu Sayyaf rebels evolves into US combat missions in Sulu Archipelago next to Mindanao.

COLOMBIA 2003-? (Troops) US special forces sent to rebel zone to back up Colombian military protecting oil pipeline.

IRAQ 2003-? (Troops, naval, bombing, missiles) Second Gulf War launched for "regime change" in Baghdad. US, joined by UK and Australia, attacks from Kuwait, other Gulf states, and European and US bases.

I'll grant you that some of the military actions were there to protect American companies. I didn't see much in there that was really profitable fo rhte nation as a whole since WWII. I was surprised at how many of the deployments were to rescue American citizens or even foriegn nationals from dangerous situations.

I agree that Indians on sovreign lands should be able to govern their own affairs without interference from the states. Those are federal reservations, and they should be respected just as much as military reservations.

I'm not sure that the reservation system is heatlhey in the long run. To me it seems that making one class of people different from every other American citizens isn't good. With the exception of the casinos, how has the reservation system been good for the Indians? From all I've heard, the reservations are mostly miserable remote welfare colonies. A classic case of the federal government trying to help someone.

There are some things that our government is good at. We're great at invading, but we're lousy peacekeepers or nationbuilders. I think our postal service. That's about all that I can think of that the federal government does well. It makes a pigs ear of welfare, managing the economy, managing it's own budget, etc. I think it should stick to what's it's good at and leave everything else to the states or individuals.