h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Two questions:- 1. Am I right in thinking that all the water here on this planet is the water that was first created. It is recycled continuously?
2. If this is not so, where is new water created (how), and is water lost(how)?

I would appreciate any facts on this subject.

water is destroyed by elecrolosis

where the oxygen and hydrogen are split up

and water is created when those two are burned together

saw a jeremy clarkson thing a while back,
he was in america where they test rocket engines, and after a "burn" the "exhaust" drifted back over the area and they had a torrential downpour, jezza commented that they make thier own weather


Taff
agent of kaos

Sorry can't be specific but I caught part of a doco recently which said it rained for thousands of years on early earth due to all the steam created by volcanoes etc and chemical reactions, but before the 'atmosphere' of earth properly formed lots of water arrived on earth from comets, which contain lots of water in the form of ice.

Not a very scientific explanation I'm afraid. Just passing on what I heard. I'm sure others here might be more reliably informed.

From Wikipedia:

"Much of the universe's water may be produced as a byproduct of star formation. When stars are born, their birth is accompanied by a strong outward wind of gas and dust. When this outflow of material eventually impacts the surrounding gas, the shock waves that are created compress and heat the gas. The water observed is quickly produced in this warm dense gas. Water has been detected in interstellar clouds within our galaxy, the Milky Way. It is believed that water exists in abundance in other galaxies too, because its components, hydrogen and oxygen, are among the most abundant elements in the universe. Interstellar clouds eventually condense into solar nebulae and solar systems, such as ours."

So since stars are still being created, I guess water is, too. Water is also created by burning hydrocarbons, the carbon forming CO2 and the hydrogen H2O. I don't know about "losing" water - it can be converted back to H2 and O2, via electrolysis, but that doesn't happen much.

Yes, the water on earth recycles continuously, the oceans evaporating, then raining and running back to the ocean.

I think.

1- Yes and no
2- Different ways.

The element that compose our planet are still the same from the beginning (Hydrogen, Sodium, Oxygen, Carbon,...). Nothing is lost, nothing is gain, all is being transform. A water particule can stay indefinitively if no exterior change make him change, but there is ways to create or loose water.

For creating water, there is combustion where a carbone composed object turn into CO2 and H2O by this example of reaction: 2CH4 + 5O2 --> 2CO2 + 4H2O. You can use other carbone composed the achieve the same result like butane (C4H10) or anything you wish to put in your car. There is other ways to produce water but this one is the most simple.

To loose water, like precedantly wrote, you can use electrolysis which consist in passing an electrical field into water like this:
+.............-
|.............|
|.............|
|-> water ->|
The electricity pass and produce the oxygen at one born and the hydrogen to the other. It is wrote like this 2H2O -> 2H2 + O2. They are other way to split water, our body need to use the water to create protein and split water with other substance to make new substance that can be use by the organism. But it is a little bit more complicated too...

There is an interesting book about a water particule who travel is way by Primo Levi I think, I don't remember his title, but the book was really much enjoying. It would answers some of your question, but will also tell you different stories about the atrocity of wars and the life of Levi. But I'm maybe confusing two different book.

All that to say that to your question, yes there is old water and "new" and that we can create water by combustion and loose water by electrolysis or chemical reaction. Other means are also possible, but these are the only who appear right now to my mind.

Photosynthesis:
6 CO2 + 12 H2O → C6H12O6 + 6 O2 + 6 H2O

6 CO2 + 12 H2O --> C6H12O6 + 6 O2 + 6 H2O

I think you may be right, but. . . . . I need to know what happens on this planet. The specific process of loss and gain of water during the life of this planet, so far. The recycling ratio? . . . I need a vodka!

vodka is a good example

water + brewing process = booze + body function = water

and round and round it goes


Taff
agent of kaos

I'd just like to correct the photosynthesis equation in posts 6 & 7

6 CO2 + 6 H2O --> C6H12O6 + 6 O2

Having water on both sides defeats the object of a chemical equation, particularly when used in this thread.

B

"I need to know what happens on this planet. The specific process of loss and gain of water during the life of this planet, so far. The recycling ratio?"

Here is a diagram that may be helpful, showing the "water balance" for the planet:

http://ww2010.atmos.uiuc.edu/(Gh)/guides/mtr/hyd/bdgt.rxml

This is evidently the current situation, not the history of water gain/loss over the life of the planet. But I don't see any flows into or out of the planet, so apparently that is at most a minor factor - now, anyway. So maybe after the star formation/solar system formation/planet formation, etc., things settled down to more of a steady state regarding water. Maybe.

I do recall reading that "stuff" ("cosmic dust"?) is dropping onto the planet, and Dave Barry says this is why we're gaining weight - its the planet and gravity getting bigger! But I don't think its water that's accumulating ...

i do know that not all of the water that goes into your body comes out again.

On average it does. Otherwise you'd swell up.

B

Water, like energy, can neither be lost nor gained!

Both may temporarily change form..

But water is the most stable H-O-H format, in the same way as O-C-O is the most stable for carbon dioxide. It doesn't mean that, due to other processes it won't change, but it's ultimate urge is to be H-O-H.

Areas like the Ozone layer only exist due to the lack of hydrogen, and the fact that Nitrogen is largely a lazy element and inert, and bivalent!!!

MMF

i beg to differ

water is being created every time hydrocarbons are burned


Taff
agent of kaos

Agreed, but where did they come from... As I said water goes through transition, but is not destroyed!!!

MMF

when water is electrolized into H2 and O2 it is destroyed

it becomes hydrogen and oxygen

if that oxygen is then used in respiration some of it becomes CO2

so the water molucule has been destroyed and is very unlikely to be reformed


Taff
agent of kaos

check out the entry

"universe of water"

it will put everything into context........f'nar f'nar


Taff
agent of kaos

Taff. Given that you clearly don't know what you're talking about, your denigrating attitude is somewhat inappropriate.

Scenario 1: Creation of water through combustion of hydrocarbons. All the hydrocarbons we currently burn were synthesised by living things. All those living things took in water in order to make those hydrocarbons.

Scenario 2: Water is electrolized into hydrogen and oxygen. Hydrogen then oxidises (hey? Have you noticed the large quantities of hydrogen in our atmosphere?) and creates water.

Scenario 3: Oxygen (from water) is respired and transformed into CO2. The CO2 molecule has several routes to go through, but the main ones are as follows:

a) Photosynthesised into glucose by plant life. This glucose is later oxidised in respiration, and the water is re-combined.
b) Dissolved into the oceans. The CO2 is then assimilated by ocean-going lifeforms into calciferous deposits. These deposits will eventually be subducted below the Earth's crust and oxidised, producing water.

I assume you weren't referencing the 'Universe of Water' entry in any seriousness, but it holds zero credibility by being a) unedited and b) ignoring the simple principle of infinite-limit mathematics.

B

hydrocarbons...where do they come from

H2O + CO2 + plant life = comlex hydrocarbons and other stuff + O2

so the water is destroyed....

how much water was destroyed to lay down all the coal beds the earth has ever had, and how much has been recreated by burning that coal????


Taff
agent of kaos