h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I had a cursive scan over the recent entries and found nothing about "the ban". Since last monday smoking in the workplace has been illegal in the Republic of Ireland. Since there are people who work in pubs, nightclubs and resteraunts, smoking is banned there. As a reluctent smoker i had been looking forward to the ban, but the realisation that i'll never be able to have a (legal) smoke again in a public space has struck. I was in the pub last night and, i have to say, it was a real pain in the ass. On the upside, there's a real sense of comradarie among us wretches outside the front door. What does anyone, irish or otherwise, think of the ban?

Having lived in the one province of Canada that was the first to ban smoking in all indoor public spaces, I can relate. It has created a brother and sisterhood of people who would rather suffer the minus C weather, rain, sleet, fog, etc. of just outside the door than submit to not smoking. The strong survive.

Seriously, as a reformed smoker I have no problem with smokers. Just don't blow the crap in my face, OK?

Another dumb idea from the Yanks, it will probably arrive here shortly as anything America does we have to do too! Non smokers shouldnt have to breathe our smoke but is it right that all our rights are denied because we do not comply? No compromise? Lump it or off...
I feel for you, same here aswell, soon as Bush opens his mouth, Blair can be heard saying 'Oh what a great idea', regardless of what comes out!
If there are any Yanks present, i am not trying to offend you, its your government, along with my own i have issue with, pity we cant shoot the lot of them but thats another thread im sure
**pauses to inhale deeply**

I think it's great. The NZ government is going to do the same thing this year .


>>Non smokers shouldnt have to breathe our smoke but is it right that all our rights are denied because we do not comply?<<

"all our rights" - which rights are you referring to specifically?


kea.

Kea,
As a smoker i am well aware of what it is doing to me, i have tried giving up before, no doubt sometime in the future i will try again..I agree any non smoker shouldnt have to inhale my smoke, which is why i consciously choose not to smoke in the street, also there is never anywhere to put it out, i dont like litter in the street of any kind....
However, i am a adult, i am fully aware of the dangers and if i choose to smoke i should be able to, public houses have been smoking dens in my country for what? the last 3-400 years? If you do not like this there are other non smoking pubs/restaurants/etc
Ireland should have a compromise as we do..up to now!
If you enjoy having a drink for example, and somebody came along and said you may only do so at home, how would you feel when you know day to day life is going to keep you out of your home for at least say 15hrs a day? not an addictive substance for most of us but ridiculous to say you can only have it here and nowhere else!
Ok you may say well you are aware of the problems/health risks with smoking - dont do it, easier said than done as nicotine is an addictive substance to all who smoke but it is not as yet illegal and whilst im not breaking any laws enjoying a smoke i begrudge being told as an adult where i can and cant have it!
Lets think about why our governments are doing this? I cant speak for your country though im pretty sure you dont have an NHS, smokers are a drain on the NHS? this is true but then so are foriegners coming into this country stating they are only here for a holiday when in actual fact they come, give a false name and recieve millions of pounds of free health care which makes me irate! What does our government do about this? Nothing, we wouldnt like to upset these scrounging would we?
If our governments are so concerned about our health, why dont they do more about the pollution coming from factories and cars? Ill tell you why, though im sure you know, TAXES! they make loads of money for the government, to our health not when we can make this much out of these running a family car or polluting OUR air in the factories making God knows what chemical wise, when the government has something useful to say, and tells us the truth behind what they are coming out with ill listen...
For as long as i smoke i will never cause as much damage to you or the environment as what they will in factories or cars, and for as long as you choose not to smoke (which of course IS the more sensible option, im not disputing that), go somewhere else, the pub has always been a smoking environment and in my country, unless Bush sticks his oar in again, i am and should be entitled to do so

Just to play the devil's advocate-

the point of the ban here is to protect the health of workers. Second hand smoke is a proven carcigon(spl?). What is the logic behind banning asbestos (which causes repiratory diseases) and allowing people to work in a smoky atmosphere? Smoking has not been totally banned in ireland, but smoking in an enclosed space where people have to work has. It is liberal in the sense that you can do what you want as long as it doesn't harm others.

I don't think I've seen so many s in one post before!

Seriously, though, I think you are reading motives and backgrounds into this issue that really aren't there - it's no more an "American invention" than any other issue which has been hotly debated for decades. And as for there being more important issues that aren't being addressed - well, governments have to do what they can to tackle *every* issue, not just the one which the tabloids are currently making the most fuss about.

Personally, I fully support the ban - but as a non-smoker who really *really* dislikes coming home stinking of fag-ends after a night out, I may be a bit biased. But on the whole, I think it would be no bad thing if tobacoo *was* banned outright - if such a ban was technically possible. Of course, the USA's attempt at alcohol prohibition rather demonstrated that it probably wouldn't be. So while I do feel sorry for people who are finding it harder to fulfill their nicotine cravings, I think ultimately anything that might force them to cure themselves of this dangerous addiction is probably a good thing for everyone.

[IMSoP]

Second hand smoke is not proven link to cancer, there is some* evidence it may have a slight effect, and equally as much evidence if not more (that doesn't ever seem to get mentioned), that it has such a neglidgible effect as to be vertually no effect at all... I imagine it (the ban), will go a simular way to what it has in France, where, as far as I can tell, for the first while the ban was introduced, people stuck by it, and now they are more relaxed about it, if there really* is a need for smokless bars/pubs/rstaurants, then why are there not more of them already? if demand is there, the market should rspond, I know of two non smoking pubs in Cambridge, if there was the demand for more non smoking pubs, I'm sure people running the pubs would rspond and follow suit...

I`m a non-smoker in Ireland, and I am against the ban. I see no reason why the pubs and restaurants shouldn't be allowed to choose themselves if they want to ban smoking. If they think it would improve business, they could ban it. If people care enough about sitting in clean air, they will go there. I don't want to take away people's right to ruin their lungs. Yes, it might not be good for the people working in such places. But think about something like the loud music they play in discos, that can't be good for the bartenders either. Should we ban loud music in public places?

2legs, there was a major news item on the radio today about new research that is showing passive smokers over the ager of something like 45 have a 15% higher chance of dying nonpassive smokers. The research was on people who lived with smokers It was extrapolated from census data and then followed up to see who had died I think.

I'll have a look for a link tomorrow.


I think the reason that there aren't more smoke free bars and pubs is because the owners know don't know aout us lot that don't go to pubs because of the smoke. How would they know about us?

I'd also _love_ to go to a pub or bar where you could hear what people are saying above the music

We've had legislation in NZ for over a decade that stipulates that restaurants and bars must have a smoke free area. Most places just stuck a few tables at one end of the room, which was a total joke.

I think if smoking in pubs gets banned, there is a case for smoking rooms, but I think they should be for smoking only not drinking or socialising in general, so that people don't have to go outside. Staff shouldn't have to go into them, and they shouldn't be big or comfortable enough that they become defacto bars/pubs in themselves.

I know that smoking is really pleasurable especially in a social setting. But it is a major health destroying addiction too.

Here's the research link:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=3559012&thesection=news&thesubsection=general

sorry if that is too long

I am living in Ireland and I also think that, on balance, the ban is the right way to go. A few pubs tried to go non-smoking years ago, but they closed quickly due to lack of business, so the situation was that pubs *had* to allow smoking on their premises whether they liked it or not. Faced with more and and more scientific evidence that second-hand smoking could lead to serious health problems in later life, the government was forced to act. Of particular concern were staff who have no choice but to tolerate smoking if they are to earn a crust. The danger was that there would be huge law-suits flying around in the years to come, where employers would be conciously aware of the presence of a proven carcinogen on the premises and did nothing about it.

The issue smokers bring up is always one of choice, but when every pub allowed smoking (they had to allow it if they were to stay in business), where was the choice for the non-smokers? I know absolutely tons of people who could not go into a bar in the past because of asthma and other problems associated with smoke.

The ban *will* work - it already *is* working. The reason is, that the bar-owners, and not the smokers, are liable to prosecution if they don't enforce it on their premises. Also, most people here are not smokers and almost everyone is aware of the health risks, so peer pressure will ensure that it works in the longer term.

Right now, governments and employers across Europe are aware that there are tons of reports telling them that second-hand smoke is dangerous. They have not yet done anything about it, but if Ireland is a success, they will have a precedent to introduce it elsewhere.

It's coming to a cinema/bar/bookies near you soon!

Woodpigeon

"I know absolutely tons of people who could not go into a bar in the past because of asthma and other problems associated with smoke."

Can't be that many if the pubs who went non-smoking before went out of business.

I think the problem with the "if there was a demand for non-smoking pubs, they'd stay open" is that it over-simplifies the reasons people choose one venue over another for their night out.

Most pubs have very complex reputations - for their atmosphere, their food, their service, their prices, their music, and even - somewhat self-fulfillingly - their clientele. When a group of people decides to go out, they generally choose a venue based on a combination of these factors, plus pure habit and convenience ("meet me at some pub you've never been to before" is not a great recipe for success). Add to this the fact that *as groups* smokeyness may not seem a big deal - maybe some of the people you are spending the evening with are occasional smokers, maybe not; maybe you'd rather go somewhere smoke-free, but are having a hard enough time organising things as it is, and don't want to make a fuss.

All of this adds up to an uphill struggle for anyone wanting to create a bar whose unique selling point is that it is smoke-free. Perhaps if an existing bar banned smoking without changing anything else, they might be able to hold onto their customers, but it seems an unlikely move for a successful bar to voluntarily risk.

Among the people I know, which I'll admit is a tiny proportion of the Irish population it's a common complaint.

As an Irish non-smoker, I'm all for the ban. But the other day I was walking around town, and all the smokers were out on the street, and I was breathing in the smoke. Since I don't normaly go into pubs, I thought the ban wouldn't affect me any which way. But now they're out on the streets afecting me!

That anti-immigrant rant was a bit off the wall .. that has about as much relevance to cigarette taxes as benefit fraud by the natives does. Put your Daily Mail down for a few minutes and chill out!

I must have missed a rant in the backlog...other than the anti-anti-smoking one that said it was the US's fault. I think if you look at history, Scandanavia was the first followed by many others in quick succession.

Anyway...

This is a good resource:

http://www.tobacco.org/headlines.php

(Skip past the smoking lesbian teens to the second hand smoke part.)

*Wonders if smoking lesbian teens will get absolutely *everyone* to check out site.*

According to a report I found on the subject, Norway will soon be imposing a ban, too. France already has, but no one takes any notice of it. Looks like Ireland have got the right idea, but it's very early days yet.

Are you possibly suggesting that the Irish government did something wrong?