h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I know in my heart that organic food is A Good Thing, but a couple of weeks ago I read an article that said that organic food isn't nutritionally better than non-organic food; that because organic produce is more vulnerable than ordinary food, they use more chemicals on it; and besides, if you fly in organic food from 10,000 miles away, that's not very environmentally friendly is it?

I don't want my environmental heart to be still. Can someone reassure me with some convincing arguments for organic food?

Anna

It tastes better.

They use less chemicals on it. That's why it doesn't tend to grow as well and as a result is more expensive, but there are no traces of chemicals. Some organic solutions to pest control involve releasing ladybirds whose larvae will eat caterpillars and small slugs, instead of spraying the plants with slug killer.

Along with eating organic vegetables goes the principle of eating whatever vegetable is in season at the moment. This means that instead of shipping carrots from Tasmania to the UK because they are in season in Tasmania, we leave carrots out of our cooking and use something else which is available locally. This saves a lot of world resources on transport. It also forces us into a more varied diet.

One of the problems with 'locally available' is that that can also be completely artificially.
The Dutch greenhouses turn out all sort of vegetables belonging in other continents or other times of the year by using an enourmous amount of artificial light. This results in a veritable light-pollution where the skies never get dark again.
So now we need laws about the amount of light the greenhouses may emit, and with our new government, I am not too optimistic.

Tasting better is an excellent argument for organic food, and being seasonal must be a part of that, too. I'm still worried about the chemicals though, as the article said that chemicals were still added...

Anna

One thing recently reported in the new scientist points towards slightly higher toxin levels *within* the food - ie the plants are subjected to more attacks and so produce more toxins as a result. Whether the toxins are good (strengthen your immune system) or bad is still being argued.
Just looked up the article and the toxin is actually salisylic acid
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99992033
This article puts a positive slant on it but latter letters had a go saying that this is not necessarily good.

Some organic movements talk about food miles - how far your food has travelled to get to your plate - as an additional criteria for measuring the sustainability of what you are eating. Eating organic will almost certainly decrease food miles in comparism with conventional food. For one thing, it isn't treated with the chemicals that make it last so long, so it can't be shipped half way round the world! If you shop at a farmers market, or eat seasonally you will reduce this even further.

The health benefit issue is an interesting question, and very difficult to measure precisely. Personally I buy organic more for its wider beneficial impact on the environment than for a health benefit. I think some organic products also taste better - that of course is subjective and varies a lot from product to product.

sprout

I certainly do not take advice on food from somebody named sprout. Be gone you evil thing.

Harsh, but fair

Tesco's organic range stocks a fruit juice with the brand name 'Love Juice', which makes for some excellent innuendos/chat-up lines.

I have bought organic produce in the past and, too be fair, it invariably does have more taste. I did, however, once drink organic beer on the Isle Of Wight, and it was foul. Mind you, all beer on the Isle Of Wight is foul...

B

Not a big fan of the humble Brussels sprout?

Most people overcook them at which point I agree they do taste manky...

I've never seen an organic sprout come to think of it - must be out there somewhere though.

Well, they can't make them taste any *worse*...

B

As far as the mileage travelled/resources argument is concerned, with non-organic vegetables you also have to take into account the miles travelled by the pesticides to get to the farm, and the resources necessary to make them, as well as the miles travelled by the raw materials to the place where the pesticides are made.

You made an interesting comment there Anna - calling non-organic vegetables 'ordinary'. This is an insight into the way people perceive and interpret the world around them. Until artificial fertilisers and other chemicals were first used on food about 100 years ago, all food was organic because there was nothing else to encourage it to grow with. As chemical fertilisers became more common they became more accepted until you get to the point today where most people think that organically grown food is something new and out of the ordinary.

The same goes for prices. When everyone used to buy their food in small, mostly privately owned shops, the prices they were charged there were the norm. Then some shops, particularly the supermarkets began selling food at lower prices, and we all said "Ooh, aren't these prices cheap!" Now we're all so used to supermarket prices, we say "Ooh, aren't those prices expensive!" when we're forced to shop at a corner shop again.

Persoanlly, I prefer to buy organic food whenever I can, simply because I don't WTF has been put on the other stuff.

I buy a lot of organic vegetables from a local farm who run a box system - over the summer to autumn period, the weekly box usually has about 10 different kinds of vegetables. Since I know the people who run the farm, I am quite sure that they are not using the quantities of pesticides etc. used on ordinary farms. The one inorganic chemical they use is the old bluestone (copper sulphate mix) against potato blight. Blight is such a problem here that they think they would give up growing potatoes if this chemical was forbidden under the organic farming rules (it's allowed at the moment). They had some problems last year because the extra precuations due to the foot-and-mouth scare meant they couldn't use the manure from their beef cattle herd at the time they should, but they certainly didn't use inorganic fertilizers instead, they just put up with the reduced yield.

I'd be particularly concerned about spray residues on leafy vegetables like lettuce, rocket, chard, spinach, kale etc. so I appreciate getting these from a local farm.

It really does make a difference when you've walked all over the farm and seen exactly where the produce is grown!

Azara

This is interesting reading about how a highly populated area deals with the issue. Just lurking. I don't have the same issue where I am.

An ideal solution to eating organic is self-sufficiency. When I was younger, my dad used to have this great veggie patch, and he grew everything on it. What he couldn't grow outside he did in the greenhouse. And the novelty of my mum sending me into the garden to pick some potatoes and peas for dinner has never worn off

It's a shame I live in a second-floor flat now, but I am planning a herb garden!

fords-p
Consider a *worm farm* for your flat, they can go under the kitchen sink or somewhere similar.

Not only are they [practically] odourless and easy to maintain, they can also turn all of your kitchen scraps into a very good and natural fertiliser, reducing your waste and adding to the health and vitality of your herbs etc.

But don't feed the worms your , it will kill them



The point raised earlier about organic foods not travelling makes me wonder... many farmers here in NZ, esp fruit - but also beef and lamb, are banking on the potential income from the northern hemisphere market to offset the costs of going organic (and remaining GE free).

six7's
*organic looks ugly but tastes beautiful*

>>But don't feed the worms your , it will kill them.

Why would there be any red wine left over?

Hey Gosho, Good point about me calling non-organic veg 'ordinary' I think it's because I perceive organic veg to be superior - both taste-wise and ethically.

Dear Azara, I'll have to investigate box schemes in the area I'm moving to. It's quite surburban, but there are market gardens not too far away. I'm still a little worried about copper sulphate, though.

Hello fords_prefect, I'm hoping that when I move and settle in that I'll get round to doing some organic gardening. I know Mina's very keen on growing her own veg, so perhaps I can pester her about it!

Thanks everyone

Anna

If you grow your own, make sure that you buy organic seeds.

Where do I get them from?

Inside Organic fruit and vegetables