A Conversation for Ask h2g2
Monger
Frankie Corridor Started conversation Sep 13, 1999
Blacksmith, Locksmith: result, lots of people called John Smith.
Stonemason, Freemason: result, lots (if slightly fewer) people called John Mason
Wheelwright, Playwright : result, lots of people called John Wright (and Cartwright, and lots of other -wrights.)
Ironmonger, Fishmonger: result...why hardly any John Mongers? (There's only two Mongers in my telephone directory, and that's in an area where there's a lot of iron- and fishmongers.)
Any ideas?
Monger
Paul the Brake Posted Sep 13, 1999
They oviously didn't like the name monger so they changed it by Deed poll (or is it pole)
Monger
Mustapha Posted Sep 28, 1999
I went to school with an Iremonger. He had a sister and there must have been Mr and Mrs Iremonger, so they must be out there... somewhere... lurking...
Monger
Just zis Guy, you know? † Cyclist [A690572] :: At the 51st centile of ursine intelligence Posted Sep 28, 1999
Simple. Smith is an ancient trade, and therefore stretches back well inside the days before surnames, whenone was "John, Smith" - which became John Smith when surnames became necessary in order to tax people more effectively.
Ironmongery is a relatively recent trade by comparison, although there are a few Ironmongers out there (one of my primary school teachers was a Mrs Ironmonger). Tinkers, on the other hand, go back a long way. The cornish for tinker was "cheap-man" which became Chapman - and there are tens of thousands of us. Ditto Potter, Weaver and so on. But most villages had a smithy, and the Smith was proud of his trade (whereas many of the itinerants were not) so the smith would be more likely to take his trade as his surname.
Farmer, whilst not unknown, was too generic. And I suspect that somewhere or other there was an Ethelbert Dungshoveller, but he probably never married .
So there you have it.
p.s: does anyone know if "smith" comes from "smite" ?
Monger
Cheerful Dragon Posted Sep 28, 1999
My husband would tell you that you should never ask questions like that when I am around. Having consulted my trusty OED and Oxford book of Word Origins I can tell you that 'smite' comes from ancient North European (Scandinavian, German, Dutch) words for smear or pollute. Smith, on the other hand, comes from ancient North European words for craftsman or his tools (chisel, mattock). However, the root words from which smite and smith are derived look very similar to me, though I'm no expert. So I'm willing to bet that, if you traced back far enough, the words are related.
Monger
Just zis Guy, you know? † Cyclist [A690572] :: At the 51st centile of ursine intelligence Posted Sep 28, 1999
In which case, I am very glad I *did* ask this question when you were around, as I actually did want to know the answer, and you just provided it
Key: Complain about this post
Monger
- 1: Frankie Corridor (Sep 13, 1999)
- 2: Paul the Brake (Sep 13, 1999)
- 3: Mustapha (Sep 28, 1999)
- 4: sassy.saint (Sep 28, 1999)
- 5: Just zis Guy, you know? † Cyclist [A690572] :: At the 51st centile of ursine intelligence (Sep 28, 1999)
- 6: Cheerful Dragon (Sep 28, 1999)
- 7: Just zis Guy, you know? † Cyclist [A690572] :: At the 51st centile of ursine intelligence (Sep 28, 1999)
- 8: F F Churchton (Sep 19, 2003)
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