h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Good Lord Ste. Where have you been ?

Can I offer you a friendly hint AncientBrit?

When replying to a post from a person, make the first thing you write their name (just like in a letter), so everyone knows that you are addressing them and their post. See, at the top of this post I have mentioned your name so it generally refers to the last posting that you made.

That's the way conversations are kept track of around here I suppose, the subject of each post is generally ignored (that is, not many people bother to alter the "Subject" much), and taken to be the subject of the original post, even though massive topic drifts are guaranteed to happen.

Hope this helps,

Ste

AB,

I was referring to E G Mel's post which asked what the problem was with ID cards. I was informing her that it was discussed earlier on in the thread and gave my own little summary .

This thread is becoming so convoluted there's virtually no point in carrying on. There's off topic drift then and there's off planet drift. This is slipping into the latter.

Ste

As you say Ste, I think we have exahsted the conversation, I do not believe I will lose anything from having an ID card, you believe it will threaten your liberties. As you can see I have used the word believe in both cases, neither of us knows who is right for definate as we have no concrete evidence.

We could go round for decades discussing, as could the Muslims vs Hindus or the Catholics vs Protestants, they wont know till 'judgement day' just as we wont know till the cards are actually in use.

Belief is a personal thing, I'll respect yours, you respect mine, and if the government decides to introduce these ID cards lets hope they're not compulsory

Mel *fed up of this discussion and likely to lurk for a while before unsubscribing*

Okay, I've had enough.

At first I thought we might just have had a thread where we could all have a reasonable debate. And it was working.

AncientBrit, you have gone from pig-headedness to childishness and refuse to respect all the other researchers and their opinions, myself included - as for the Reply button thing, why does it bother you so much?!

However, I no longer wish to contribute to this thread. It was fun, for a while.

I respect your beliefs Mel but as I see it (I mentioned this before I think) ID cards are currently not in use, so the burden of proof is on the side which wants them to be introduced. That side has not given a convincing argument so far, therefore the conclusion so far is that they should not be introduced. Perhaps you can convince us otherwise Mel .

*Not given up yet and not unsubcribing yet*

Ste

I'll make it easy for you all
I think that I may do a summary in my personal space
Thanks to those who tried

Maybe a trial period is in order, 5 years say, then look at various crime figures related to ID cards.

I cannot convince you to want ID cards, I don't know how they will effect the country and the way we live, however, I'm prepared to try them if there is even the remotest chance that they will make this country a better place to live, because frankly at the moment, I am totally un-enamoured with the crime figures of this country and the juvinile crime rates.

Mel *what are children of 7 doing roaming the streets at 10pm? Parents you have your duties.*

New ID Cards to be introduced in Belgian
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/2295433.stm

Could identity cards for UK citizens discriminate against ethnic minorities and seriously hamper race relations?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2094000.stm

I still think that the argument that ID cards will be used to discriminate ethnic minority groups is insane (or thereabouts).

In that second article, they mention that black people are more often targeted by police and immigrations officers than other groups, and why not have a card showing to that police/immigrations officer thatyou're actually a British Citizen and thereby telling him to sod off?

I can't claim to know what it's like to be discriminated (more than the remarks my team mates give me for being a Swede in Scotland, playing American Football), but is it really that bad? Or could it be that there are a few vocal people that wants to stir up discontent and voice their disagreement to anything that can remotely be interpreted as a chance for the government to single them out as a group, be it blacks, muslims, jews, Irish, Swedes or Scots.

If these spot checks of people from other racial groups are so widespread and is such a problem as they already say it is, what states that it would become worse if a National ID card was introduced?
Would the checks drop? Probably not. If they're doing it now, why would they stop just because people have an ID card in their wallet?
Would the time it takes for a person to establish his identity at one of those spot checks be shortened by an ID card? I believe so.

I also saw at the poll results on the second article that 61% (at the time I'm writing) are in favour of instating an ID card.

Expect to hear more from the government about ID cards in their next manifesto, in their policy consultation document on democracy and citizenship, it asks "Can we define Britishness in a way that we can all recognise and in a way that respects our diversity? What norms, customs and institutions are British? What does it mean to be British? Would a national identity card give people more of a stake and identity in society?"

What is really needed is an internationally accepted ID Card.
United Nations would be better doing this than telling us not to smack our children.

Maybe they should do both...

Mel

The problem is not ID cards but the requirement to carry them at all times as "proof" of ones identity. As for an internationally recognised ID they exist and are called "Passports" which are issued by national governments under a framework agreed by international treaty.

You carry your passport around with you as ID for a year or so and you can watch it fall to bits, nope, me I'd like the convienience of the card!

Though I don't think you should have to carry them, it would just be advisable!

Mel

That's the problem, as I understand it all proposed ID Csrd laws in the UK so far have required one to carry the ID card at all times.

It will never happen, half the feamle population don't even take a purse/wallet when they go out of an evening!

Mel

Start it off again at A951248

I would have no problem with ID cards.
If they would help cut down on crime I would welcome them

Giving it another go AB?

Ste