h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

What about thread/threading - should thread really be thred, or was it pronounced 'threed' at some point?

It's more likely that it was pronounced thrayd. All "ea" consonants were once pronounced "ay". This explains why "we'll all have tea" is rhymed with "they've all gone away" in "Polly put the kettle on", and why "eagle" and "weasel" are rhymed with "table" in "Pop goes the weasel". This pronunciation of "ea" still exists in some parts of Ireland.

Sorry folks, I don't do weekends.
Basically (that word some of you hate) short vowels double the consonant and long ones don't (exactly as the man said)Hence the difference between shining and shinning, between rating and ratting, between sleeping and schlepping, I'll have to get back if you really need any more confirmation : I have just come out of a three hour meeting to set up an elective grammar course - so I'm grammared out for the nonce

You started a meeting on elective grammar at 07h30? !!!!!

Is 'ea' a special case, in that in words like thread/bread, it is pronounced as if it were a short 'e' (thred/bred), but there is no consonant doubling. Is it something to do with having a double vowel?

The example of 'lead' is interesting - both 'lead' and 'leading' could be pronounced with short and long vowels, depending whether one is leading a horse, or leading a church roof.

or adjusting the leading in your presentation: A884117.

This "ay" sound - could it be that it has survived in "afraid", which, if it were to comply with the same rules as other words, seems to me should have become at some point "afredd" (at least in pronunciation)?

Although I suppose it is a corruption of "afeared", which will probably be its excuse, and which will dash my theory.

And to go back to the versatility of German - it's not only the long word constructions that I was referring to, Gnomon, but the wonderful way in which you can take any verb and quite legitimately add a "be-" in front of it (exactly equivalent to a few English words like "be-ribboned") or you can make it reflexive and prefix it with "ver-" if you do something wrong or overmuch. For example, "rennen" is "to run" - "sich verrennen" would be "to run too far", or, more likely "to run off track".

There are many others which are a bit to complicated to explain and it is a subject which has nothing to do with British English.

But I am sure it's my lack of practice in speaking English - and afore-mentioned tendency to mould your thoughts to suit the language you are going to use - which makes me look for equivalents in English. Whereas English also has lots of short cuts and little tricks for manipulating words to mean something slightly different, mainly by turn ing nouns into verbs, or verbs into other parts of speech ad lib.

In Yorkshire all vowels are long, ( must be extra roughage in the diet).

But afraid is "afred".

What, all of them?

Am currently reading Bill Bryson's Mother Tongue. A fascinating book and he seems to be of the opinion that all rules of grammer are basically made up, being based on Latin, which English itself is not. Makes me feel so much happier.
Oh, and he agrees that when the spelling of bread, tea etc. were formalised ea was pronounced ay, so brayd and tay.

"In Yorkshire all vowles are long". Poppycock, if I may be so bold. What about words like hot, bed, bath (northern 'a'). These are all short vowel sounds. Now if you'd said 'In Yorkshire they murder the English language', we might have had something to debate, but (to use a dexy's midnight runners track title) thankfully, not living in yorkshire it doesn't apply.

>> ...be of the opinion that all rules of grammer are basically made up, being based on Latin, which English itself is not. <<

Yay Munchers! Yes we should all be of that opinion.

The very first 'rules of English grammar' were written by Shakespeare's buddy Ben Jonson as a 'tourist guide and phrase book' for Italians and other Continentals who might visit merry olde England during the heady days of the Renaissance. It was based on Italian/Latin models found useful by Brits visiting Italy.

It never even got published in his lifetime. Although it is tempting to say this fact reflects the relevant importance of such a book, it is more likely just witness to the state of publishing at the time. Once great and famous men were dead no royalties were owing and every little scrap they left behind (even an unfinished 'parody' of an Italian tourism oddity) could be published for the undiscriminating masses at a clear profit.

Upon a google search of 'grammar Jonson' I found:

http://www.m-w.com/undcon/gilman.htm

< >
1640: Ben Jonson's grammar is published in his works, posthumously. It is in English and is intended to help foreigners with learning English. Jonson is the first to cite Quintillian's dictum "Custom is the most certain mistress of language."
< / >

By the time the 'other Johnson', Dr Samuel Johnson, published his famous 'dictionary and grammar' nearly 200 years later people were already taking the 'rules' far too seriously. Sadly (if not madly), since then, what was originally only intended as a 'help for foreign speakers' has spawned a cult of hard-nosed authouritarians who like to elevate the 'rules' to the status of Law.

As old Ben Jonson said, "Custom is the most certain mistress of language."

I believe that roughly means "Usage is the only authourity."
And that is the only 'Rule' I understand.


~jwf~

~jwf~
"I believe that roughly means "Usage is the only authourity."
And that is the only 'Rule' I understand."

So, that's Rule 1, and
Rule 2 would be:
"In all other cases, Rule 1 shall apply."

Will that do it, d'you think?

Moses needed ten commandments, but Jesus managed with two. You didn't think you'd get away with just one, surely?

No of course I wouldn't try to reduce all of Life, the 'verse and E'ery-ting to one Rule, you silly, silly man.

There's one rule for grammar. And there's other rules for baseball.
Different sets of rules for Scrabble (I can't abide the Official Scrabble Rules BTW but I do use the standard rules for Poker)...

So you see I will happily observe a different set of rules for everything, as a rule.

But if I had to choose just one rule to live by, it would be the Golden Rule, which you will know from your ancient yoof as "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

Oh, and in case you hadn't noticed the Golden Rule has recently been reworded into the modern idiom as "What goes around, comes around."

Now 'go forth and multiply' before I comes around again brother!


~jwf~

And while I have all your attentions, let me say how pleasing I found Gnomon's song a few postings back.

Let's hope we'll here more of his liltings and more about the folklore of the Irish, their inability to say 'yay' or 'nay' and the wisdom of their faerie folk and little people.

It was Gnomon several months (years?) ago who informed me that Lisburn (my ancestoral home) meant 'faerie fort' and I never properly thanked him for that quantum shift in my cosmic view.


~jwf~

So much for the Great Unifying Theory.

On the subject of Sport, there is a late night TV programme featuring poker. The players sit at a glass top table with cameras underneath so the viewer (probably only me) can see the hand. Despite this help, I still can't tell who's won.

In the comedy TV series "Porridge", about life in a prison, the chief Prison Officer says:

There are only two rules in this prison; one, you don't write on the walls, and two, you obey all the rules.

Plaguesville, yep, just you and all the other post-pub drunks! I don't know who won, but it's very easy to tell who is losing!

Icky, of to Ireland as apparently the lasses don't say 'no'.

*mutters times tables under breath in accordance with jwf's behest*