h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Well, as a Christian and an 'Internet missionary' I have to add that a lot of good also came from the missionaries work.

The real problems with Christianity occur when church's attempt to make bucket loads of cash in the name of the religion. This is definately not what the Bible says!

But I am not a Christian that says people can not have their own views, it is good to have different oppinions (did I spell that right? I dunno).

I totally agree. If you stop all thought that is not Christianity.

If you are not a Christian it is difficult to understand what being a missonary is all about.

Last weekend we had a visiting Christian from Pakistan that had been beaten because he had helped to converta a Muslim girl, when she expressed an intrest in Christ.

Feel lucky that you can give your opinion. This Pakistani was told he and His family were no longer classed as Pakistani's anymore, and had to flee the contry to stop the girls family ( who incidentally shot her) from killing him.

No offence is meant here but, I think that missionaries take off where God slipped up.

So wher do you think God slipped up then??

I might agree with you, but I'm not following your train of thought.

Well, try "Ethnic Cleansing" for a start. Then there is Geneside, murder, rape, slaughter, pain, misery and the general unfairness of life. And don`t give me all that guff about Jesus dying for mankind (No offence meant to believers), because some people have to go through worse than that, and their not the basis of a religion. To anyone who is truly a believer of the Christian faith, then no offence was meant, and I apologise if any was taken.

Surely though you must agree that God (should he exist) gave man a brain and independant thought. It is man's choice how he uses his knowledge and therefore you can't blam stuff like Ethnic Clensing and genocide on God. Man has chosen that path on his own.

Certainly I can't see how Jesus could have died to save us from suffering if the suffering is allowed to continue.

However, it should be noted that missionaries on the whole do a lot of good. Without them, many places would be without basic provisions that we take for granted, like clean water, education and someone who will listen to them.

No, it is not good to force your religion, whatever it is, down someone's throat. However, missionaries should be viewed more as a religious version of Oxfam. That's my opinion anyway.

And just so you know, I do not regard myself as a Christain but I was brought up in a Catholic household. (I don't regard myself as any kind of religion).

O.K, I'll admit that Missionaries do do a lot of good, but surly if god is all powerful, then wouldn't he be able to stop the bad stuff?

A modern parable:

A man lives in a town where there is a huge flood. As the waters start to rise, his neighbours start leaving for higher, safer ground. They offer him a ride in their car, but he says 'No, it's OK. God will save me.'

The waters rise. He goes up to his top floor. A man rows past in a rowing boat and offers to take him away. "No thank you, God will save me."

Again the waters rise. He retreats to his rooftop. A rescue helicopter spots him, but he waves them away, saying "It's all right. God will save me."

He drowns. He's taken up to heaven, and he asks to see God. "I'm a faithful man, why didn't you save me?" he asks.

God replies "I sent a car, a boat and a helicopter, what more did you want?"

Very good. You cannot blame God if you choose to ignore opportunities.

I do not believe in an omnipotent God but I do believe that we can't blame everything on succh a being. He did give us the right to choose and he can't be blamed if we choose the wrong thing.

For a lot of people, believing in such a being can give them peace of mind and strength to get over difficulties they face.

Yes missionaires have had a bit of a bad press but you cannot deny the good work that they do, or the benefits of a strong belief system.

Where missionaries go wrong is in the imposition of a belief system upon those who have no need of one, or who have one of their own that they're perfectly happy with. Read the bit in Last Chance to See where Douglas makes some sort of comment concerning the missionaries aims; they're not bothered how people behaved as long as they were behaving according to a certain rulebook.

I agree that no one has the right to impose a belief system on other people and that this was a problem with the early missionaries. But neither should anyone be condemned for their beliefs. It is easy to judge things in a black and white way but you must also take into account the religious fervor of that time. I really find it hard to believe that the same thing could be said of missionaries today.

And although Christains are more famous for imposing their beliefs, other religions and organisations have done exactly the same thing. China is a case in point.

Aye, the Tibet-threatening nasty people that they are. I'll leave comment about non-christian religions to people that have more experience of them. What I resent, living in the UK, is the assumption that still exists that people are C of E by default, as if being religious is the right way to be.

What I always resented as a child growing up in a catholic household but going to a predominantly C of E school was the presumtion that i was pro IRA. What person in their right mind could possibly pro IRA?

And with China it's not just the Tibet thing but the whole thing. The Chinese government are constantly putting down people they don't like. I can't believe that Tianammen Squre was ten years ago. It doesn't feel that long. And for some reason the Chinese government is till insisting that it was all western propaganda. They are behaving in a worse manner than any missionary I know of did.

The Chinese Cultural Revolution is another case where an organisation has tried to impose its views on people.

And it wasn't too long ago when the Ayatolllah (I'm sure I've spelt that wrong) was quite happy to issue death warrants to all and sundry.

To Smurf, but how can you be sure that there is a god? I know that this is an agument since arguments have been invented, but it is still a valid question. Why did god cause all this pain, if he is all forgiving, then he would have either forgiven Adam and Eve, or even not come up with the demon in the snake. I don't see how anything as powerful doesn't just stop anything that is bad.

Or maybe there isn't a god...?

I don't want to seem like an Atheust (or however you spell it), but have you considered that there might just possibly not be a god? That we are just a buch of freaks that shouldn't be here?

Probably the common link in all religions is that our existence has a point, and that the presence of struggle is nescessary for growth. Just imagine if the world was transformed, and in this new world the worst thing that ever happened was your bus was late. In this almost ideal world, over time this would develop enormous significance, and philosophers would agonise over, how could God be omniscient, omnipotent and loving, and still allow my bus to arrive late. Is it the presence of hardship which discounts belief in God, or is it the degree of hardship.

The evils of missionaries/the church. I can't remember who first said this but "The best thing you can say about the (Catholic) Church is that any other organisation with that amount of power would have done alot more evil."
A quote from AW Benn, in the week in which he announced he will be leaving parliament at the next election. "the Labour party is not a socialist party, but it has always had some socialists in it, just as you can sometimes find Christians in the Church."

That maybe so, but how can you compare murder, rape, pain, misery, geneside and general miserableness with a simple late bus. Besides, you said about the Catholic church that they could do alot of evil. Ever heard of the Spanish Inquisition? It might be still allowed if it weren't prohibited by the law.

The comment about the evil of the church is a summing up of the end result of an organisation run by people, influenced by the belief structure that founded it, the (mostly) men that organised it and the world in which it exists. It is not a defence of the atrocities genuinely commited by religious institutions but it is a perspective on what the world may be like without them.
If we were to accept the absense of god from the hman world view, we would have to accept that all the above are due to man. Therefore the elimination of religion is not likely even in those circumstances to improve human behaviour. Has the experience of the 20th century not demonstrated the ability of organised non belief to dwarf in efficiency the ability of the church to do wrong.

I personally would call myself an agnostic. The common thing people have is the need to believe in something that helps them understand their existence. For me this is the power of self; you can do anything you want to if you try hard enough. Although you do often need a bit of luck on your side.

My main concern is with organised religions. The people at the top tend to get power hungry and selfishness is a trait we all have.

And has anyone else noticed the link between the hype of the millenium bug and the last turn of the century craze where the end of the world was about to happen. That gave rise to all kinds of interesting things like Jehovahs Witnesses, Mormons and Plymouth Bretheren.

I'm not saying that god isn't real. I'm just asking if anybody here has considered that God isn't real, if he (or she) isn't, then the atrocities of mankind can be taken responsibility of and maybe the human race can learn from the mistakes they have made. Then maybe people can stop doing bad things in the name of the allmighty. I used The Spanish Inquisition as an example. Another example is so called "Ethnic Cleansing". If God is real, then why doesn't he do something about this, if not then lets stop using an imaginary name to get rid of our guilt. I think that we are working in a state somewhere in the middle.

I'm a sit on the fence person and yes I've given much thought to "god" and his existence. The more I think about it the more I think he doesn't. But I do think there is a greater force that moves us all. No, I don;t hink that but I think for my sanity I'd like to believe that was the case as it then gives some meaning to life I guess.

It is true that the attrocities we see in the world are certainly not the work of god but of saddistic and power hungry men who have real inferiority problems so take it out on other people. People need to understand that they are presented with choices as they go through life and you can't blame it on god if you make a wrong decision. God only gives you the ability to make up your mind, he doesn't make it up for you. At least that's what I was told growing up in a liberal catholic house and I still regard that as true.