h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

"Israeli troops have arrested 64 Hamas officials including nine Cabinet ministers [...]."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2248955,00.html

What does that mean, 'arresting' ministers of the neighbouring country? Call me naive, but I didn't know you can 'arrest' anybody (let alone members of the government) in a foreign country without some kind of local authorisation Why didn't they just say 'abducted'?

Well it is a hugely difficult scenario.

I understand that Isreal is in a huge corner at the moment, but this action can surely only increase the tensions massivly.

The difficulty we have is that Hamas won the election in a move that I thought sounded the deatyh knell for any prospect of peace this generation.

I hope Zagreb comes i on this debate as he usually has interesting things to say on the subject of the middle east.

With Israeli jet fighters flying low to generate sonic booms that smash windows am I the only one who can see an ironic and sad juxtaposition with Chrystal Night.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/kristallnacht.html

Hi Toy Box,

I think you are right - it is straight "abduction". and at 64 to 1 it makes a mockery of the Israeli/Jewish sentiment of " an eye for an eye, etc etc"

A personal view is that this unending conflict is more dangerous in terms of alienation and division that Iraq,- if we assume that the gradual progress there leads to something.

Perhaps what is worse is that the unfortunate Israeli soldier is possibly already dead, so where the hell does Israel think it is going next?

Novo

I have always thought that the next world war is likely to be started due to something America or Israel did, which is irronical seeing as America supplies Israel with a lot of its weapons and the money to buy them.
The problem is that of course terrorism is bad, like rockets fired at Israel, but what the Israelise (sp?) do in return is just as bad, like the fireing of rockets at cars of those who they accuse of being involved, in built up areas on a nearly weekly basis.

This is something I've never understood about human nature. Why do the oppressed turn into equally heartless oppressors at the first opportunity? Shouldn't they of all people understand the futility of it all?

It is difficult to openly support the Palestinians in the US and not be accused of being anti-Semetic. If you try to present a logical argument concerning the illegality of the Israeli state and the plight of the Palestinian people, then you're shouted down as a Nazi.

Morning Hyp,

Robert Fisk, a Middle East journalist in our Independent wrote a very hard hitting article on Mearsheimer amd Walt who maintain US foreign policy is driven by Israeli issues.

WA - I'd love to read that, but I can't find it. You wouldn't provide a er with a link, would you?
W

Ne'er mind me...
http://www.robert-fisk.com/articles578.htm

WA, I personally believe Fisk is right. It always seems to lead back to Israel.

>>> The Israeli lobby has every right to carry on its work - all Americans like to lobby. What we are saying is that this lobby has a negative influence on US national interests and that this should be discussed. There are vexing problems out in the Middle East and we need to be able to discuss them openly. <<<

I think this puts it in a nutshell. It seems one cannot discuss Israeli influence on US foreign policy with out being jumped on - and this stifles the debate. In a leading democracy, we see it bodes ill for policy setting when a healthy discussion cannot take place. It also sends a message ot the countries surrounding Israel that it is protected in its aggressions to them, and therefore untouchable - therefore the last resort actions of terrorism. The eternal problem of the weasel eating it own tail

I don't think attacking military forces should be considered terrorism.

But that puts Israel at war with a guerilla opposition that hides amongst the civiliation population. Well how are they to respond to that?

The only way they know how - which is what they are doing now... that's the catch 22, unfortunately

It's really funny that everyone here is more concerned with lamenting being attacked for their views, when in fact no one here has been attacked - rather than actually discussing this big "Middle East crisis". Show's how important the crisis actually is, if it's more important to discuss poster's persecution, rather than the actual crisis.

*Everyone*?

My apologies. The thing is, I'm not used to saying what I really think about the Middle East situation because it certain people heard it, I'd probably lose my job. So I dance around it.

This latest act is illegal and totally out of proportion to the provocation. This is probably a Amerocentric view of the situation, but until the US has the backbone to call Israel on it's actions, I can't see a peaceful resolution.

By withdrawing their soldiers from the foreign land (Palestine) that they invaded 35 years ago? Surely that's all the Palestinian 'terrorists' want?

Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"

It's a bit hard to do that if they have settlers insisting on occupying an allegededly historic 'Greater Israel'.
Who was that at the back who said 'Lebensraum'?

"By withdrawing their soldiers from the foreign land (Palestine) that they invaded 35 years ago? Surely that's all the Palestinian 'terrorists' want?"

I think you will find that many consider all of Isreal to be "palestine" and the only acceptable solution is for Israel to not exist.

It's a never ending story.
Both countries have exteme parties. Begin was murdered by an Israëli.
And the Palestinians have killer-cult groups.

Having said that, I realize that the suffering of the palestinian peoples is immense and as long as that injustice remains there will be war as it is now.

It will take at least one or two generations, before a real settlement
is agreed and both populations can live side by side.

The Dutch governement had always a very warm relationship with the israëli's and in communistic Russia, our embassy was the only place where Jews could do their bureaucratic paperwork for the Russian governement, so they could leave the country.

But our relation was very unbalanced.
Now we do also have real, serious relationship with the Palestians.
We should have done that 20 years ago.


Greetings from Amsterdam