h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Entry: Punk Rock - A1056827
Author: Researcher 228522 - U228522

A short little guide to punk rock.

There is already an entry on Punk rock at A791336, though that deals specifically with the genre in the UK.

You might like to have a look at A909975 - the H2G2 Punk Society.

It would be a good idea if you wrote an introduction your Personal Space Researcher 228522 - that way it would become active and one of h2g2 Assistant Community Editors could welcome you to the site

Obnoxious!
Although you do give a brief history of punk, it does seem to have a more personal slant on things. I don't think it's fair to refer to an artist as "The Evil One" weather or not their music is any good is down to personal preference. That said this does have the makings of a good entry. I would suggest you take a look at the GuideML clinic and learn how to write entrys in this style.

Pongo

Nice entry - you clearly have a good feeling for punk. However, as Gosho says, there is already an entry in the Edited Guide about punk in the UK. What I'd suggest is that you rewrite it to focus on a particular issue of punk - you could go for the Development of Punk, Punk in the USA, or maybe Punk (or even Punk vs Pop Punk) in the 21st Century - maybe the last one as you seem to have a handle on what's going on now.

By the way, welcome to h2g2 - stick an introduction on your personal space, pop over to the h2g2 punk society and we'll have a bit of a chat if you like!

Anyway, about the entry as it stands, regardless of what you choose to do with it:
I'd quibble that punk was started in the late 1970s, though - although 1976 saw what's probably best described as the first wave of punk, the antecedents of punk were in the late 1960s and early 1970s, when people first had the idea of performing with electric guitars even though they had no idea how to play them - the bands usually talked about in this context are Iggy and the Stooges (the 'Raw Power' album), the MC5 from Detroit, the New York Dolls, and Johnny Thunders and the Heartbreakers.

The first punk single in the was actually 'New Rose' by the Damned, released on Chiswick Records in 1967, and clocking in at a sprightly 1 minute 59 seconds!

I'd say that punk after the first wave took many forms - and whether it's a now a musical style (three-chord songs, political lyrics and so forth), a fashion (leather jackets, bondage trousers, dyed mohawks or body piercings) or an attitude (much harder to pin down) nobody knows. There's an argument that says certain dance or indie acts are actually more 'punk' than, say, the Offspring. I'd say New Order have always been punk, in a way - and so were the Prodigy, without question.

You say that when most people think 70's they think of disco - you're right... but there's a saying that the 1970s actually finished in 1976 when punk started - any music thought of as 'Seventies' is usually pre-1976 or if it isn't, it's disco. I've never understood or had much respect for people that think 'Sixties' and 'Seventies' are musical genres anyway (and no, I don't mean anyone I've met on h2g2 - so far!), but that's a digression and they've probably spent their leisure time in much more contructive ways than me...

I'd take a little issue with what you say about Disco - a lot of it is or was rubbish, but some of the early stuff is brilliant (Chic, for example) and wasn't created by computers. Blondie were undoubtedly punk, if you ask me, but they were heavily disco-influenced (Atomic, for example) and for my money they were brilliant. On the other hand, I agree that a lot of modern dance music is created by computers for people to take lots of drugs to AND you can't dance to it, either!

"All punk in the 70's was out to make sure Rock didn't die under the preasure of these slick trendy morons." I can't speak with too great a knowledge about punk in the USA, but certainly in the UK punk was out to destroy 'rock' rather than disco - it was a reaction against heavy rock bands like Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath, and prog-rock outfits like Yes and ELP, a reaction against the indulgences of eight-minute long songs with a two-minute guitar solo, against the cult of the 'rock star' status of the likes of Eric Clapton and stadium concerts where you were one of a crowd of thousands and felt a million miles away from the 'star' perfomers. I know for a fact that the 'Disco Sucks' movement in the USA was started by a white 'rock' (rather than punk) DJ, and it was in part a racially-motivated reaction against black music. As I mentioned above, the likes of Blondie and Talking Heads were very much influenced and inspired by the early disco scene.

I know very little about US punk in the 80s - I've not come across Minor Threat and Social Distortion, and have only vaguely heard of The Exploited. I do know a little about Black Flag, X, and Fugazi, though.

I sympathise with a lot of what you say about punk vs pop punk. Where do you stand on The Offspring?

Anyway, to sum up, I've enjoyed reading your entry and the reaction I got from reading it, and I've enjoyed the pure punk rush of writing all of the above as a response!

More analytically, I'd say keep this piece as it is and keep it on your personal space, but as it stands it's probably not one for the Edited Guide. Don't be discouraged by this, it'll still be part of the Guide in general, and you can definitely use it as a basis for a new article that will be suitable for the Edited Guide, maybe along the lines of what I suggested above.

I'd suggest having a look at the UK Punk Edited Guide entry for an idea of the sort of thing that gets into the EG, and you might like to check out the Writing-Beginners section as well for some definitive guidelines.

All the best,
Number Six

By the way, the h2g2 Punk Society's at A909975 - pop over, click on the 'Click here to be notified of new Conversations about this Guide Entry' (or it might be 'Discuss this Level' depending on which skin you're using), and I'd recommend posting on the 'Hey, I wants to be a member' thread, where you're likely to meet quite a few like-minded souls...

Actually it was McKay who pointed out the other entry Number Six

Have to agree with you about the origins of punk - Iggy is often called either 'The Godfather of...' or 'The Grandfather of Punk.

I'm sure that '1967' is a typo - 'New Rose' came along in '77 It was however the first UK punk single - something John Lydon has probably never forgiven Dave, Captain and the boys for, although he'd also probably never admit it.

Punk died when bands like The Stranglers and The Buzzcocks started appearing on Top of the Pops - just my opinion

"When most people think 70's they think of disco."
Do they? There were at least four major (I said major, not mainstream) music trends in the seventies - glam, prog, disco, and punk.

When you say that disco is created by computers, maybe you're talking about today's dance music, which is created by people *using* computers. The only 70s music I can think of which involved anything like a computer was the kind of music being created by people like Kraftwerk,
Tangerine Dream, and Walter (now Wendy) Carlos. There were others.

"All punk in the 70's was out to make sure Rock didn't die under the preasure of these slick trendy morons."
As I recall, the primary purpose of punk was to wrest control of music from the big labels and hand it back to the musicians and the kids.

Number Six - "a reaction against the indulgences of eight-minute long songs with a two-minute guitar solo"
Eight minute songs and a two minute guitar solo? I guess you never went to see PFM or Greenslade If Tony Gregg didn't give us at least 15 minutes worth of bass solo during 'Melange', the owners of the Dagenham Roundhouse had a denim-clad riot on their hands Likewise the other three members of the band and their respective instruments/songs.

All in all an interesting entry, but not one for the Edited Guide, sadly.

Didn't green day have a ton of albums out before they became popular? So isn't more accurate to say that Green Day became Pop Punk...maybe they actually weren't originally, but they sold out...?

So no one wants to subscribe to the theory that Green Day sold out, but was originally a solid punk band?

I don't know man, they were kinda poppy the whole time, but they definately got worse over the years.

Sounds plausible to me, Dave.

Sold!!! To number 6 wearing in the second row.

Actually, for a bit of perspective on the perception of punk by one generation to the next, you should check out this article:

http://www.theonion.com/onion3919/90s_punk.html

It is a very high quality piece, and very illuminating to the current discussion. Well timed also.

dave

no one checked out my link?

The author hasn't posted since May 30. That would be two months. I think that would pass the bar of having 'left the building'.

Can we have the entry removed from PR? Though given the interest, maybe a move to FM would be in order?


Geggs

First read my link on punk rock, assuming it still works. Them sink this ship.

Read it. I'd kinda like to know what Johnny Rotton thinks of all these kids knocking about too.


Geggs

Yeah, that would be sweet. One my mark, detonate the charges in the hull.

3!

As Geggs points out, the author hasn't posted to h2g2 for over two months, nor has he/she incorporated any of the suggestions into the entry, so I'll propose a move to the Flea Market.


Scout

2!