h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Empty Sky, I'm still not convinced regarding the link between Bush and military contractors. Some facts that seem to get in the way include the Democratic endorsement of the Virginia class submarine project that the Republicans stopped when they got into power (and since been restarted) and the fact that the joint strike fighter was also a strongly supported by the democrats.

Btw, the term 'Euro-git' is *extremely offensive*. I don't suppose you'd care to be called an Aussie-prat.

call me what you will...............
but YOU IS what YOU IS
p**s or get of the pot

I see your point, Neugen, but in the current fiscal year Bush increased military spending by $48bn, or 12%, the biggest increase in 20 years. He has spent more on defence than at any time in American history. His, imaginary, 'axis of evil' is the vindication. The Bush administration desperately needs for the USA to have a percieved enemy. They will continue to invent them forever. Iraq is only the first.

Saddam has transformed himself into an Islamic leader, in a typically cynical move. Originally, he was some sort of National Socialist, then he went to war with Iran and was a moderate bullwark against Islamic Fundamentalism, now he is a brother-muslim fighting the holy war against the evil West.

Who is it spreading this malicious crap that "Europeans" are somehow soft on terrorism?! France intervened in Algeria to keep Islamic militants out of power and underwent an Islamic terrorist campaign for it. Most countries in Western Europe have endured various terrorist activities, mostly Marxist or Neo-Fascist. All America's European allies were quick to react to the September 2001 attacks and gave large-scale support to the US anti-terrorist operations in Afghanistan and elsewhere.

If there are American Rush Limbaugh types out there who persist with this idea that "Europeans" are not strict enough on terrorists, they might like to reflect on the warm welcome their countrymen gave Sinn Fein not so long ago, or the bars in New York that proclaimed how much money had been raised for the IRA. Look at the plank in your own eye, brothers.

Some also might like to note that British citizens died in Bali too

You've completely failed to make any sense, Rocket Rod. Is that because it's after midnight in Australia? Should you be in bed?

I am a Euro-git, and I will ask again, what can poor minorities in developing countries do to influence the actions of developed countries? This wasn't just a retorical question, but I thought it tied right into the Bali problems. Until later....
BCNU - Crescent

cresent, the answer to your question is f**k all. With the possible exception of glorious martyrdom. Its not *entirely* true, but is danm close to the mark.

Probably should be in bed,but zzzzzzzzz've got an early flight tomorrow. Just checking the weather

Empty Sky, we need to distinguish between spending on the military and spending on military campaigns. Bush is spending a ton on Afhganistan and now moving weapons and personnel to the Gulf. I'm suggesting that this spending (on military campaigns) is not the ultimate goal (although it helps him politically), but rather is a means to secure oil interests in the region.

>call me what you will...............
but YOU IS what YOU IS<

And what exactly is that? And which pot am I supposed to be urinating in and for what purpose?

Good to see you moving the debate forward in such a constructive way, Rod.

Neugen, you're absolutely right. The military campaigns have a clandestine purpose related to oil. But the excuse to pour large amounts of money into the acquisition of military hardware and keep the government contractors happy, is an added bonus. It's not the ultimate goal but it's certainly one important goal.

Crescent: "I am a Euro-git, and I will ask again, what can poor minorities in developing countries do to influence the actions of developed countries? This wasn't just a retorical question, but I thought it tied right into the Bali problems."

What exactly do they wish to influence?

By linking the question to the bombings in Bali, I'm inclined to think you are referring to people in Bali somehow wanting to influence the behaviour of the tourists. Indonesia is a Muslim country where some fundamentalist Muslims will find the dress of the women tourists and the drinking of alcohol objectionable. But given the fact that Bali has been a tourist destination for decades, it's unlikely that the locals of Bali will be the ones objecting.

>And what exactly is that? And which pot am I supposed to be urinating in and for what purpose?

Good to see you moving the debate forward in such a constructive way, Rod.<

the pot that is not setting bombs in hotels and bars or flying airplanes into buildings. You really don't know that?
I am wondering if you would be so sanctimonious if one of your family members were in bali?

>Crescent: "I am a Euro-git, and I will ask again, what can poor minorities in developing countries do to influence the actions of developed countries? This wasn't just a retorical question, but I thought it tied right into the Bali problems."<

Are you suggesting that terrorism is a legitimate tool of diplomacy?

Hmm, 'making a show of righteousness or piety'. Interesting thought, but not likely to be describing me.

Rod seemed to be putting forward the idea that the way to deal with the bombing in Bali was the outright annihalation of 'them', those that 'are out to get us'. As I can't identify them, and don't for one minute believe that Rod or you can either, I'll ask again, perhaps in a clearer form;

What pot am I p**sing in, and what will it achieve in the long run?

As Zagreb said, perhaps you'd like to consider the longstanding American tradition of supporting IRA terrorist activities in the UK before considering how it is we can question why all out war isn't the solutuion to terrorism.

I don't think attacking Iraq would be a very good thing.
For a start, it would be illegal under international law, as already mentioned.
Besides that, Iraq haven't really provoked anyone very recently, and it just doesn't make sense to "liberate" Iraq when they have already agreed to letting inspectors in.

Hmm, 'making a show of righteousness or piety'. Interesting thought, but not likely to be describing me.

>Rod seemed to be putting forward the idea that the way to deal with the bombing in Bali was the outright annihalation of 'them', those that 'are out to get us'. As I can't identify them, and don't for one minute believe that Rod or you can either, I'll ask again, perhaps in a clearer form;

What pot am I p**sing in, and what will it achieve in the long run?

As Zagreb said, perhaps you'd like to consider the longstanding American tradition of supporting IRA terrorist activities in the UK before considering how it is we can question why all out war isn't the solutuion to terrorism.<

I'll take you at your word on the pious thing.

I will repeat myself in a clearer form. piss in the pot that does not blow up hotels,bars,buses or run air planes into buildings. Your a smart man right?

as far as IRA I am sure there are irish americans that support them. In my eyes a man that sets off a bomb killing inocents is not a man but a murderer no matter his nationality. there is nothing to consider

I challenge you to find *ANY* posting by me on this site that indicates I have any sympathy whatever for terrorists.

I've been here a little over two years so you may need some time. I'll give you a week, and if by then you can't find any, I'll accept your apology for the outrageous suggestion contained in your last post that I appear to support terrorism simply because i don't believe that all out war on Iraq is the solution.

America is in worse trouble than I thought if it's possible to confuse an argument on the methodology of dealing with the problem with an argument on what the nature of the problem is.

a partial sentence from blue shark:
>As I can't identify them, and don't for one minute believe that Rod or you can either,<

I did not answer this in my last post so here goes. I can identify them for you. They are *islamic fundamentalist* fanatics, murderers the clerics who post edicts of murder promising a slice of heaven for those who would kill in the name of allah. The ones preaching murder in the mosks. the ones running training camps in terror. the ones who look at terrorist activity as a form of diplomacy. the ones who would kill hundreds to make a political statement. The ones who would turn back the clock a thousand years. the ones that would stone a pregnant women. the ones who are as we speak ploting death to our way of life.