h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

With the state of the ComingUp page as it is, and what seems lke a real fall off in writing for the EG around the site (I sense disillusionment and disenchantment) I really do think the UpdateForum needs some more regular input.

I think many h2g2 users are put off the UF because of the amazingly inappropriate amount of time it takes for an Update to go through. If we compare updating processes to other sites, it is a much quicker, and in fact it seems quicker to get a completely new Entry into the EG and on the Front Page than for an Update to be processed, which to me seems a little silly. Updates are invariably just minor rewrites and inclusions of missed information, and the UF does have a comprehensive review system in place, so I just can't understand the delay.

I can think of a few h2g2 users who have used the Update Forum once or twice, then not bothered with it, or lost interest, due to the delay in getting Entries updated, especially as some of the Entries have incorrect information, which makes us all look a bit silly really.

Can we please get some more input into the UF - as there seems to be interest in updating older Entries - and as said, if the current trend continues, the Front page and the Editd Guide will have to rely on Updates as the new Entries every day.

As a radical thought, we could dispense with the UF altogether and treat Updates like University projects. They could go into PR for seven days, where they would get reviewed more (there are very few commenters in the UF, which slows everything down), and if all the suggestions have been dealt with in that period they could be pulled out and the Update could go ahead.

would agree with that. Having seen my West Wing entry lurk in updates for most of a year.

hmm. Not a bad idea to be honest. Then an update would automatically get Front Page too.

Although I'm subscribed to the UF, I'm rarely in a good position to comment on the content, so unless I get in first with typoos I have little to say. In PR, there would be more people to comment, both on the content and to give encouragement where necessary. Are there any benefits to having a separate Update Forum?

*thinks*

benefits, no, I can't really see any. It helps so as not to confuse new entries with updates I guess, but like you mention, Uni Projects go through PR, and as long as they are labelled as such there isn't a problem.

It might cut down of EF work too to some extent. Maybe.

As long as they were preceded with 'Update', there wouldn't be any confusion.

There would be the same amount of editorial work to be done, as the PR thread would have to be moved from the new Entry to the one that was being updated, and presumably the promo slot would still need changing - the Entry wouldn't go through the normal editing process. From the writer's point of view, though, it would be a much better experience.

And that is the positive side of it. I think we'd get a lot more people updating if they knew it was 'simpler'.

And if they knew it wouldn't take two months to get to the Front Page...

I think moving it to PR is a really good idea. Including the original entry in the first post is no different to linking to the original entry if it's a Flea Market rescue.

I am planning an update actually. I've got it written on paper, still need to type it and post it. Probably be done next week.

2 months?

lucky buggers!!!

Indeed

*waves to an Italic*

What's the view here PTB?

It would solve the "that's an update; you can't put it in PR - you'd better move it" problem that I'm sure is relatively off-putting to newbies.

Here is a question, and feel free to shoot it down, why not take it even further?

Kill off the writing workshop and bring it into PR? For some of the people who use the EGWW, PR is like a second EGWW anyway, their entires are totally re-written in it.

Other people are complaining that the EGWW is dead, which to be fair, it is.

If we dropped the thing from Peer Review that the resercher had to think the entry was ready for submission to the guide, then everythign that was heading towards the edited guide could come through PR. It was save things being stuck in EGWW for ages, then having to make their way through PR.

I don't want to shoot you down at all, Jon, I think that's a separate issue, Jon, and the Scouts would be better placed to comment on it than me. Let's not dilute this thread with it, because we could go off at all sorts of tangents.

The difference is that Updates are generally taken on by experienced writers who have already been through PR themselves and are submitting work that already fits the Guidelines and requires tweaking. What you are proposing is to open up PR to every Entry regardless of completeness, and I feel that is a different subject entirely. Do you fancy opening up a new thread here with that idea?

We just want to say that we are taking note of the points made in here, and would like to do whatever we can to encourage updates. (Apologies if we've seemed to overlook this in the past - it's generally a matter of choosing what to focus on next!)

Although we were slightly worried that if Updates went into PR they might confuse newbies (PR isn't the least confusing concept anyway), we think that if the thread titles are clearly signposted (eg, 'UPDATE' (!)) this could be a good idea.

We'll continue to promote new updates in the promo box beneath the new Entries, and we should also take the time to promote Updates as they're in progress.

Apart from the admin business of changing the update forum and moving threads, can anyone think of any other things that would need to be done - or pros and cons for the whole idea?

Thanks!

Well, as I see it, the change would involve removing the Update Forum from the choice of forums available o post something (as was done with the Collaborative workshop) - but the Update Forum page would need to be kept somewhere,so as the instructions and ways of updating don't get lost. The page would need some minor updating itself to come in line with the ideas of the h2g2 University.

I think it really is worthwhile merging - especially with what appeas to be a bit of a decline in Edited Guide material.

While Jimi et al did a fantastic job setting up the Update Forum, we need to look at devolving some of the more bottleneck type parts of h2g2. I appreciate what jon is saying about the EGWW - and perhaps that can also be discussed as a way of making the site alot more user friendly in the future, as it seems to have lost some of that appeal in regards to writing for the EG.

I don't agree that mixing EGWW into PR is a good idea, sorry. I get put off commenting in PR as it is when there are lots of errors, most of which are spelling and grammar that ought to be sorted before it gets submitted. A few is fine, but some of these entries are barely readable and it certainly puts me off. Yesterday I commented in PR for the first time in at least a month, but I picked entries that a) sounded interesting and b) were by experienced, top-shelf writers (laconian and GB).

I admire anyone who has more patience than me for the entries needing a lot of work, but I really think mixing the two will put people off.

That's a valid point, and Skanky is right, the subject of the worth of the EGWW is a separate one entirely from that of the Update Forum (as noted it's mostly experienced writers who approach the UF) - so perhaps a different discussion about the EGWW needs to be started?

I think so.