h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

PC, don't ever try Gillian McKeith's quinoa nut roast. It's like chewing through cardboard.

Entry: What to do with a Vegetarian at Christmas - A87724830
Author: Z / Dr Zen - U185843


Page turner

They need to be basted I think, though of course don't use the turkey baster for it.

I beleive the guy writing this is a vegatarian ~ now if I was writing it you might have a point.

Wow - bit like the old days - that was in response to Devonseaglass.

Entry: What to do with a Vegetarian at Christmas - A87724830
Author: Z / Dr Zen - U185843

page turner

I had assumed that I was patronising meat eaters. However whilst most people on h2g2 know that I'm a rabid militant meat-is-murder vegetarian, many people who find this via google won't.

>>Some people who say they are vegetarian are ok with eating white meat such as turkey<<

Who? If you eat anything that comes with a face you're not a vegetarian. I don't like seeing this sort of thing in an article of any sort, it leads to ignorant meat eaters saying 'oh, that's ok then, vegetarians can eat chicken' or BBC sitcoms telling the world that it's OK to serve vegetarians fish (yes, I do mean you, two point four children). I have to say, I didn't realise Z was a veggie, and when I read it I felt it was patronising vegetarians. If I hadn't read the backlog, I would have made a comment to that effect and unsubbed. I'm still trying to work out if you intend this to be a set of serious suggestions or if the whole thing is a joke.

On a more practical note, I've never met any vegetarian who was OK with the use of animal fats in their food. I have, however, met a few who were resigned to having to eat something cooked by someone who had 'no idea about what was unacceptable to a vegetarian but was trying their hardest to be compromising' and who just put up with it out of politeness or resignation that it's the best you're going to get from them. I also think most veggies would think 'wine - fermented with dead animal' if served it by a meat eater. The vegetarian charity Viva! do a good mixed case of vegetarian wines (handy for giving as presents too).

I like the idea of asking the vegetarian but with reservations. Asking can make them feel like they are being treated as a freak show and make them even more wary that you are going to serve something with meat in 'by mistake'.

Confine it to a simple 'do you eat things like Quorn or TVP? If they say yes, then a couple of Linda McCartney pies in the oven with the usual Christmas Veg and Vegetarian gravy can be a welcome offering, but tell the vegetarian diner before it's served, so they don't think you've given them a meat pie. If you don't say anything until it's served up, you are telling the whole table that you've resorted to a branded product. I've always accepted that if a host is busy preparing a Roast bird for the meat eating guests, they are going to be too busy to prepare a veggie dish from scratch, and pies make a good substitute. It also has the benefit of not looking tacky, like most ready meals would. Personally, I wish they would go back to the old, deep style, pies. They looked even better.

As a rule though, it's better to aim at catering for the stricter definition of Vegetarian right from the start, rather than hoping you can 'get away with' using animal fats etc. You don't need to cook using it so why bother?

In my experience meat eaters use fats in gravy making only because they've always done it and don't see why they should change. Then they complain that they have to make two lots of gravy. No, you don't, you can serve a vegetarian gravy to all of your diners. It doesn't work the other way around though.

Lanza, if that restaurant owner is in this country, you might point out to him that vegetarians and vegans make up 14% of the population and 1 in 5 of under 21s. That's a lot of customers that are walking away from his restaurant because he only offers them one choice of meal. And the next time your chicken eating friend claims to be vegan, box them around the ears from me and tell them there's a word for vegans who eat animals... liars.

The entry does raise the question - and it's a legitimate one - of how fussy you are entitled to be when you are someone else's guest. The obvious answer, of course, is "if they invite me they should cater for me", which seems reasonable. But by the same score, I wouldn't expect a vegetarian host to gut, scale and fillet a fish for me. Saying they can survive without meat or fish just this once isn't the point - the Entry's about accommodating your guest's expectations and desires, not making them accept your own.

So, I think it might be worth addressing the issue in the entry of how much it's reasonable to expect?

I've heard that even Buddhists will eat meat if a host unwittingly puts it in front of them, so as not to offend. But I wouldn't expect that of a vegetarian guest.

At least one vegetarian is usually at the table when we all sit down together. For Christmas meals and Sunday lunch I always use a vegetable-based gravy mix, and do the potatoes in a separate baking tray with margarine rather than round the roast or the turkey (usually because space doesn't allow otherwise.) I'll do one more sort of vegetable than if everyone was eating meat - mushrooms are usually a good idea. This gives all the guests more choice, so it is to everyone's advantage. The meat is carved in the kitchen (also due to space). No veggie has ever complained. And apart from more vegetables to peel, it doesn't cause any extra work or take up any more space.

I still don't understand where you get animal products in wine, but maybe that's because I live in a part of the world where wine literally grows on the doorstep and it practically makes itself.

While I don't think I learned anything from the entry, for me it has the right tone and it makes sense.

Had not heard that about buddists, but then again, i only know one active one, and since I've never had to make a meal for her, it is not really something i can test.

I think the issue with patronising/piss taking comes from Step One. It's funny, and I like it, but after that the tone seems to settle down and it's a far less contentious (yet still useful) piece.

Agreed

I'd say leave as stands

As a meat-eater I didn't feel patronised. But then if I were entertaining vegetarians or vegans I'd simply make a vegetarian/vegan meal for everybody and the other meat eaters would just have to put up with it.

">>Some people who say they are vegetarian are ok with eating white meat such as turkey<<

Who? If you eat anything that comes with a face you're not a vegetarian. I don't like seeing this sort of thing in an article of any sort, it leads to ignorant meat eaters saying 'oh, that's ok then, vegetarians can eat chicken'"

There's a huge difference between mentioning that some people hypocritically claim to be vegetarian whilst still eating meat and outright saying that vegetarians can eat meat. This entry does the former quite unambiguously, so if you need a stepladder to get off that high horse I'll go fetch one.

Yes *some* people hypocritically claim to be a vegetarian when and then eat turkey. Now clearly they aren't actually vegetarian.

If I was a meat eater I wouldn't want to spend hours carefully making sure the vegetables weren't cooked in meat fat only for the 'vegetarian' to say 'ooh I eat turkey'.

What Z said.

People use the term vegetarian to cover a lot of different eating practices. You won't find out what they actually mean by it unless you ask.
Whether you then agree with their definition is completely different, of course, but it's up to you if you want to engage with them in moral debate.

Personally I really like Step 1 and would be sad to see it go, but that's just a personal opinion. It means that I start reading the Entry with a smile.

Which does happen. I used to work in a kitchen which catered large set meal functions at least once a week. Two meat and one veggie options usually. The number of times a veggie person would say 'Oh! But I like chicken!' was quite large.

Thing is, not all veggies are in it for philosophical reasons. Some people just don't like (red) meat very much or to eat a lot of meat. They have cleary settled on 'vegetarian' as a way of not getting presented with beef wherever they go. Which is fair enough. You can ignore carrots if you don't like them, but it's a bit hard to refuse the main attraction.

I'll think about re-wording that sentence...

Some people may be vegetarian because they disagree with modern factory farming practices. If you are 16 and your mum just buys the cheapest meat she can find, you don't have the option to buy organic free range meat, so you go vegetarian.

But if you spend Christmas with someone who raises a few of their own hens you may well be very comfortable eating said hens.

Step 1 should stay, because it gives voice to the obvious joke that most people will be thinking of anyway.

I wonder if a footnote explaining the author's philosophical position on vegetarianism would be in order Because this is vegetarianism from the pov of someone who believes meat is murder but is very polite about it. I think the reason why we've been confused in Peer Reveiw is because that view is at contrast with the more liberal admittance that not all veggies feel that way, most evident in the bit about asking them.

I also like set one, but again, it is the more militant position, and so jars with the next bit unless you know how polite Z is about it all.

As I said, I know a 'vegan' who eats chicken. So step 1 should stay. Not all vegetarians are strict, their reasons for not eating much meat vary from person to person.

As for Buddhists, this is true also. I house-shared with a Buddhist for many years, so got used to making vegetarian options at each meal. He never once ate meat in my company. But he had to attend an uncle's funeral, and so as not to offend his family he ate ham sandwiches, as there was no alternative. But this was because it was a funeral, and people were already upset. I don't think this should apply to a Christmas meal.