h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Are you saying that people don't submit more fiction to the AWW or the Post because they are afraid of the ferocious critics that lurk there ?

People like me?

We're not really that scary, are we?

When I think about it, I've encountered at least three reactions to criticism in this place.

Supposing you say "This story begins well, but I think the end could do with rethinking."

The first type of writer says "OK, will do," and goes off and rewrites. This type of writer is going to learn and develop.

The second type says "I know what I'm writing and I don't need idiots like you telling me how." This kind of writer is not going to learn and won't improve.

The third type says the equivalent of "The Great Prophet Zarquod told me this in a dream and I know it to be true."
The only reaction to this is to don your tinfoil hat and run for it.

So what I would say to aspiring writers is: if we criticise your writing, we're not criticising you or casting doubts on your integrity. We're just saying that all pieces of writing can be improved; that rewriting is an essential part of writing; and you only get better with practice.

You? Not ferocious, in my book.

That assessment of writers is really good.

I am trying to get people writing. Or writing again.

Well, I may try, but I lack ideas. And skills.

We're all working on our skills, unless we're like the people MVP was talking about, who got all their expertise from the Great Prophet Zarquon...

And ideas we can help with.

"We're all working on our skills" NOT all of us


quote {genius is 1 inspiration and 99 perspiration}

for normal folkfor me! it's - "genius is if it's 100% daft, use it"

Well, yes, but .......

yes but .....

My creative spark is reacting. Oh, it is such a problem childe. heheh. If it tells me anything useful, I will share it, intelligently. .

Good debate though.

I'm afraid of ferocious critics. Certainly am.

Help! Help! Are they in the house? I don't think so. But they do exist. Out there. In all the arts.

hah! and who's afraid of the big bad monster slavering wolf. haha. no, wait, I've had some almost intelligent thoughts about submitting creative writing to h2g2. Here they are. Bit scattered. See if any resonate. hmm



Is it secretly daunting perhaps, to some, that the site was founded by a sort of like really famous writer. Probably not. haha. Inspiring more like, but I just wondered. Sometimes doubt seeds can get in anyway.

There were quite a lot of famous type writers associated with my family, and I know I was daunted about writing even ABC, in case I couldn't live up to them, which I couldn't. haha. but it can make you feel awful if you really want to make it as a writer.



The people I know who work professionaly in the arts all say that surviving the monster critics is all part of it. Its like a dance, a martial art.

Its different levels I guess. Whatever you are designed for. I have a friend who I lived with for years, and we would write together, but then he turned pro and makes a living from writing now, and I stayed in my corner with my notebook. He told me the other day that he yearns for the days of our youth when he could play around with writing, and I told him to shut up, haha because one day when he retires he can have both ways.



Perhaps its all about what you write on the intro to a Guide Entry, before submitting to the AWW, and maybe there are different levels, and you have to be honest so you don't wind up in the wrong place.

Like, many people will perhaps want to learn the craft of writing, and therefore its really cool to know that there is quality critique there on offer, in the AWW and places. I don't know what all happened to the Underguide, but it still seems pretty good to me. Like with Dmitri and mvp and Bel and some others. So, in the intro you write



But, there might be some people who don't know if they want this or not, so they might be a bit daunted to write this on the intro, in case they get into the fast lane when they want to be in the slow lane, and it might be more like .

More like an exercise in sharing. Not like manipulating people to say its good or anything, but I would say that to risk sharing is equally important, and equally scary sometimes. Then, after a while, it might evolve into the new challenge of learning more about the craft of writing.



And then there are people like me who are like scrambled eggs mixed with question marks and raw onions, but, in fact, I have found my heaven on this site, learning to share visions, and play around with visions, and being inspired by others, and going on and on and on about absolutely nothing , which is my honest heaven, even though I would like to be a famous writer really. Not. Hahah.

You think any of these thoughts are interesting?

professionally. not professionaly. typos tell all. I hope not. haha.

Those are really good thoughts, cc. That's just the sort of thing everybody's thinking about right now - how to make sure h2g2 is inviting at all levels - and you put it so well. If you look here, you'll note that lots of h2g2ers are working on an idea for making up attractive challenges - not just about writing, but about sight and sound, too: http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/brunel/F21537567?thread=8263104&latest=1 (My part in that is limited to offering useless advice, mostly.) What do you need to do to 'make it' as a writer? Earn a living? Hah. Get famous? Bah. Be admired? Double bah. It depends on what you're writing what's in front of you *for*. For instance, right now I'm writing a post to say hi to you, and tell you how much I enjoyed your anecdote and insight. When I was a kid, I wrote blush-makingly bad poems and little songs for my mother on her birthday or Mother's Day. My sister, who had artistic talent, drew things according to my storyboard, and lettered the cards. (She even wrote out the music, readably, on music paper.) After my mom died, my dad found them all in a drawer. She'd kept every one. They weren't great art, or great music, or great verse, in the sense of being 'for the ages'. But they were perfect for their audience. Which is a whole lot more than can be said for a great deal of commercial product.

I particularly like this:
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I think the first critic is in your head, or at least in mine. I keep on thinking of giving up because the voice in my head is saying 'this is a waste of time'. It's very easy to give up because you don't think you have the talent.

So, the first thing is to write because you like writing. For some people, it is a liberation to discover freewriting. Take a word and cover a page with writing anything that you associate with that word, then see what you can pull out to form the basis of a poem or a story.

I don't think there's anyone here who would give a newbie a real mauling. I don't know what happens if you get as far as being published commercially.

Good point, MVP. I don't think people *mean* to be as critical as they often sound. I also think it's largely because some people don't realise that constructive criticism is a skill that need to be learned.

I do a lot of 'work for hire' - I write things that do not appear with my name on them. This is more relaxing than dealing with PR and the AWW. The client wants you to succeed, you know. What you get are concrete requests for rewrites - 'this is what we need, this is our house style' - rather than aspersions on your personal character or educational background.

I don't spend much time trying to get fiction published, because I give it all to h2g2. But I sent a short story the AWW was really vocal about hating to an arts journal.

They published it - with a very kind comment.

I also think the new undertaking Solnuschka is spearheading is a very positive development. Instead of trying to force all the creative writing into one very narrow space, offering a broad spectrum of challenges can let writers of all persuasions and at all levels have a go.

So we are sometimes too tough or perhaps too narrow minded.

I suppose you have to remember that there are lots of ways to write. Though that then leaves you groping around for criteria by which to rate a piece of writing.

John Gardner in his 'The Art of Fiction' talks about fiction as a 'vivid and continuous dream'. (I did learn something from my US course!) So you look for fiction that establishes and maintains that dream.

Plots that grab you, characters that feel real, settings that are detailed enough to convince. Probably.

I agree. In fact, that's what I've just spent my 'free afternoon' writing about. And then trying to demonstrate. (We'll know in two weeks if it worked.)

What we need to do in a workshop situation, however, is not to pretend to be literary critics.

What we need to do is to be coaches.

It's not about 'this is good, this is not good.'

It's about 'I think this might work better if...'

I look forward to seeing it.

"I write things that do not appear with my name on them"

Dmitri, does that come under the writer set up ? as in books etc for other folk

Nah. At least, not so far, Prof.

But if you write content for school lessons, it gets rewritten, collated with other stuff, etc.

What you write is theirs to fiddle around with. And your name doesn't appear on it - it's a 'house voice'.

thanks Dmitri

but alas - no name, but! if something wrong in it - "your" name THEN appears

The good part about it is that nobody knows, most of the time.

For instance, one client sends me things to rewrite, sometimes. And I think, 'Who *wrote* this?'

Unless they forgot to rename the file, I can't tell who was to blame.

I love my friends to have an "escape hole"in life