h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Breaking news.

American oil companies buy and close down all America's soap factories

Comment from a man in New Zealand:- "That will cause a big stink."

I'm still to make a judgement on the tape. As someone pointed out, the things said on the tape are convincing because scripted dialogue doesn't tend to sound like real conversation, and this does (some of them also contradict the official US line re: the attacks). I doubt they are wrongly translated, it would be hard for the US government to keep that under wraps.

Thing is, there are some contentious things. "Osama bin Laden" wears a ring, unusual amongst muslims and pretty much unknown amongst fundamentalists. Also, the stills I've seen are very bad quality and don't look convincingly like O.B.L. Also, this has probably been brought up, but the scenario of one of bin Laden's followers "accidentally" leaving an incriminating videotape in his house/base in Kandahar. That's a little hard to swallow. It also seems odd that bin Laden would deny planning the attacks, but make a video of him discussing it and then make sure a copy is sent to each one of his bases.

TD, I have been reading a certain red bordered American news magazine, and it gets even scarier.. articles about how Iraq should be next, but our 'European allies aren't as enthusiastic'.. Now, you say Somalia. Great! It really will be WWIII!!! I ask, what gives them the right?

Iraq next?

Can they even find anything more there to bomb.They (USA & UK) have been bombing there daily for ten years now, without telling much about it.You would think they´d bombed every outhouse and toolshed in that country, but what the hey - this is the 21´st century let´s start it off with a bang

T´m.. D...

I gotta chime in again.

So at the end of the war with Iraq, in which America defended Kuwait(its ally) and also protected its oil interests, Iraq was forced into agreeing to allow UN inspectors into the country to make sure that weapons of mass destruction and/or biological weapons were not built.

That being the case, the fact that he has not allowed UN inspectors into the country, makes the agreement null. The peace ended the day he refused to allow the UN into his country. So let's not point fingers at the US. Iraq continually chooses the role of the aggressor. They made their bed, they get to sleep in it.


As to Somalia, I don't know enough of the politcs to say anything really intelligent. All I know is that they harbor terrorists too, and with the precedent set in Afghanistan perhaps that's all the policy makers need. However I don't think it will happen in this term. He won't have enough time. So perhaps there is hope for you America Haters yet.

OK, lets think about this.

Iraq - who really cares if Saddam is toppled. He's a dictator, the US won't be overthrowing the will of the Iraqi people. And if he's not overthrown, the US will just keep up it's bombing campaign and thousands more will die.

Somalia - even a US puppet state would be better than the despotic warlords. Also, thousands are dead thanks to a civil war that has no end in sight.

Can anyone give me a reason why any decent, liberal, person should care if the US overthrows the regimes in these countries. Has it really come to backing dictators and murdering warlords to spite the US, flawed though it undoubtably is?

I wonder whether, in its War Against Terrorism, America is willing to examine its own recent history. What about the role of the US military and the CIA in training death squads in Central America during the 1980s, or the dropping of napalm on Vietnamese civilians, or the illegal bombing of Cambodia? Will we see a fresh examination of US misdeeds? Or are acts of terrorism commited only by foreigners?

On another point, now that the US has instituted evil Soviet-style military tribunals does that mean Dubya has lost the bragging right to class himself as the (appointed) leader of "freedom-loving people"?

Loonytunes,

I'm not saying the US is a wonderful country without a blemish to it's name. It's not, and those who have been sinned-against by it should never forget.

What I'm saying is there is worse than the US government out there, and in war you back the lesser of two evils. Besides, innocent people were killed in the events of Sept 11th, and we owe it to them to see the perpetrators of those crimes brought to justice. I would like to see the perpetrators of US crimes brought to justice too. That will never happen.

In light of the fact that 16 of the 19 terrorists on the planes came from Saudi Arabia and the guy bin Laden is talking to in the recently-released video is a fellow-nutter from Saudi Arabia, a right-thinking person would be perfectly justified in wondering why no American pressure is being put on Saudi Arabia's leaders to either purge their country of terrorists or be prepared to face the consequences.

A short word explains why it will never happen. OIL.

In the Gulf War, America's first aim was not to defeat Iraq, it was to ensure it retained access to cheap Kuwaiti oil. Killing Saddam Hussain would have been a bonus. Not a lot has changed.

Well Looney, no one goes to war for just ONE reason. There are usually several.

Besides which, Kuwait is our ally. What difference does it make if they are our ally because of the oil they control? This is why countries make alliances, mutual gain for both parties. They have their reasons for the alliance, read money.

As to the Saudia Arabia question, I don't know exactly what the problem is there. I would venture to say that none of the terrorists fled to Saudia Arabia, they fled to Afghanistan, and perhaps that is why there isn't any pressure being put on them. Baring that, I know we have a rather large amount of troops stationed in Saudia Arabia and maybe that is enough pressure to keep them from operating within that country even though they are native. But that is just speculation on my part.

Talking about money, I note people from Argentina are dying because their country has gone broke through owing so much money to the American-dominated World Bank.

They are in good company. They join the thousands of Asians who die in floods each year because American companies such as Nike pay them such poor wages the Asians can't afford to build adequate barriers to protect themselves.

All the above (and the NY outrage) pale into insignificance compared to the millions of Africans doomed to die of HIV/Aids because those fanatic defenders of the Christian faith, the aged, male, allegedly celibate, Catholic Church's leaders inhumane ban on the use of condoms.

Right, I am getting steamed.. America Haters? To be honest, keep it up, and I may be yet.
I have heard that weapons inspectors have in fact been allowed recently, and have found nothing. Repeat, nothing. This has the stench of all having been planned from the start, the "hawks" I believe the term is, having been itching to go to Iraq for years anyway.
I believe that the UK "harbours terrorists" in the form of the IRA, NZ has the odd lone Tamil Tiger, Spain has ETA... and as Dubya seems to feel free to define "terrorist" as he likes, there's logically nothing stopping WWIII, whenever you guys in the You Ess are ready..

Yes, Loony, I have to agree with you about Argentina - what a complete disaster! But...


"All
the above (and the NY outrage) pale into insignificance compared to the millions of Africans doomed to die of HIV/Aids because those fanatic defenders of the Christian faith, the aged, male, allegedly celibate, Catholic Church's leaders inhumane ban on the use of condoms."

Regarding yr quoted remarks about HIV and condoms, we may have a separate argument brewing there, but that's for another time.

And now comes the War Against Christmas. "Evil knows no holiday," sqeaked George W Bush, explaining why normal White House fun would be curtailed this festive season ("Step away from the Christmas cracker and place your hands in the air...").

What a way to fight the forces of darkness...

PERIUM:

Okay so here we go again:I´m NOT an America hater as I´ve stated several times in previous postings.Being critical towards the way a countrys goverment acts does NOT mean hating or even disliking the people at large.And hating a country for existing seems a little far out dosen´t it?In fact I like a lot of things coming out of USA such as Frank Zappa, Grateful Dead,Paul Auster,Hunter S. Thompson,Al Bundy , A lot of the DC comics (I grew up feeding on those)Star Trek and Moon 1999,candy canes,The Internet.Hell!,I even liked one of your presidents, Jimmy Carter; too bad he was too intellectual for the job though.So to call me (and other people on this discussion who´ve clearly stated wievs close to this)an America hater is so far out that I don´t even know why I´m bothering to answer that rather silly statement anyway...HMMRRRRPPPFF..
it´s sad that we should waste time on such trivialities.

I don´t agree with YOU on a lot of things, but I´m sure I don´t hate you





As for the UN inspectors, I understand that FBI had agents in that group wich Saddam found out about, so naturally he kicked them out of there. Does anyone know any specifics on that one ??





Yes; "And/or biological weapons".

Now let´s see: the only biological weapon to make a scare up until now is apparently originating from America, so chances are that America has a terrorist of their own to take care of.It´s interesting because America has been asked to recieve UN inspectors to check out theese things in USA as well as in other countries, but USA hasn´t allowed it, and see what happens.It´s ironic that USA have demonstrated the best (or worst) example to SAddam and others why to have independent UN inspectors do these inspections.

I´m so P****d off about that.


Ok. I´m off for a welldeserved vacation.


Till next year (where there´s probably a lot of backlog to read up on)




T´mershi Duween.

I don't know, i go away for a couple of days and look what happens to the neighbourhood.

The US did help to set up the Taliban in fact, although they were essentially 'the opposition' to the ex-Mujahadin (the US's former allies) at that time.

Have you noticed how the Northern Alliance has begun to be refered to as the Mujahadin in news reports over the last two weeks. Odd seeing as how the NA have been backed soley by the Russians since the Taliban came in.

Sure the CIA did had their herion scams there, but the CIA does not exist to distribute narcotics, it exists to 'fight the enemies of America' - which basically means stopping anyone else having any autonomy or power and destroying egalitarian or comunist states at any cost. That's a high cost, and often an illegal one, so if congress won't foot the bill, the CIA will find other means of funding (gun running, drug smuggling, any other form of organised crime). These tactics are par for the course for intelligence services/secret police, who inevitably find themselves 'above' the government and law they supposedly serve.

As for Saddam, i don't know about you but i remember the UN teams going in to Iraq, i remember watching them on TV, and i remember them not finding anything.

I also remember the fuss because they weren't allowed to serch certain of Sadams personal palaces, but i also remember the team leaders saying that they didn't feel there was any threat. Then i remember us blowing the living hell out of them all over again, and the inspection teams having to get out of Dodge.

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The point is, is that the US (or at least the CIA) are fanatical zealots. Their 'religon may be capital at all costs and anti-communism, but they are zealots nonetheless.

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When the US lauched its attacks and began to found, train and fund the Mujahadeen the Afgan government was a popular socialist government, which was 'freindly' towards Moscow, but was in no way a puppet regime, nor even an aligned state in the sence that the Warsaw Pact were in Europe. But again zealotism got the better of them.

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There is the matter of gas / oil pipelines for which the region would be key in supplys between Iran / China / Russia / India. Its a poor country, but there's potentials for lots or oil money there, and as far as the US are concerned, ALL oil money is US money by divine right. Also the Mujahadeen were focused against the liberation of Kashmir in Northern India (which yes, i agree should have the right to a referendum on independece) and the US backing of the rebels was seen as another tool against India in thier refusal to let the mutinationals establish / advertise there.

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Que?

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Lets not forget that Iraq was also Americas ally at the outbreak of the dipute, so much so in fact that they asked US permission to resolve the dispute militarily - which the US gave permission for.

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No, lets point foingers at the US AND Iraq, both tyranical regimes but one with vastly supirior firepower and the inclination to use it. And lets not forget all those US violations of UN dictates in Cuba, Nicaragua, Guatamala, El Salvador etc etc etc. The Cuban blockade is illegal, period. And yet it remains despite resolutions by the UN. And the US uses strong arm tactics against anyone else who choses to export to Cuba (see the sinking in the Thames of Britsh Leyland transporters exporting Buses to Cuba for actions against your 'allies' - some Brits haven't forgotten).

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Though Nike, GAP et al are responsible for drudgery, slave wages, dangerous workplaces and appauling working condtions over long hours, blame for the floods (in Bangladesh - i assume you refer to) cannot be soley laid at thier door. Credit must be taken by the logging companies which are still deforesting the hills and mountains upstream causing the land to drain faster and a heavier volume of water to be present (as it's not being used by the trees and directly causing the floods.

89% of western domestic waste is paper. 99% of office waste.

The sentence below is evil, read it over again and witness it's incidious intent.

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What we owe the victims of Sept 11th is to ensure that no further innocent people are killed in their name. Justice for victims means peace and solution, not retribution and revenge.


"If one message could have escaped
from the lager it would have been this:
Do not allow what is forced upon us here
to be purpetrated in your own homes."
- Primo Levi