h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

IDIC, the press is 'free' in all western counties, a piece of information the 'free press' (or educators) in the US obviously have a hard job getting across to US citizens.

So-called press barons - such as Australian-born Rupert Murdoch - control media empires that have outlets all over the world. Satellite TV means broadcasters such as CNN and the BBC have global audiences. And then there is the Internet.

Bright people can separate the wheat from the chaff in this modern-day information overload. Earlier generations did not have this luxury.

News is, by definition, current events, important or interesting recent occurrences.

Having participated in the sister forum to this one at great length, I know exactly what I am stepping in to when I say what I am about to.
I support the President whole heartedly. I found his remarks and thoughts mirrored those of myself and indeed those around me. I watched his speech in front of Congress the other night and was moved. Truly. I felt pride in this country and proud that we have pulled together to fight this foe. Contrary to what you may be thinking I am not a Bush supporter. I am not a stary eyed red-white-blue thumper. I disagree with many of his policies. But he said what needed to be said. He told the country that he was resolved to fighting those who did this to us. I do not think that it was said with a light heart either. There were times when I could see what I think we all are feeling, I could see the hurt in his eyes. This personal affront to our country, this slap to our face, and this utterly disgusting needless waste of life.

Like it or not ladies and gentlemen, we may fight amongst ourselves in a disgustingly appalling manner, we have been guilty of many things abroad, but when you boil it all down, WE LOVE THIS COUNTRY, and when an attack is brought to our home soil for the very first time since our very early beginings, we will not lay down and just wait for it to happen again. We will find this man who has declared war on our country and we will bring him to justice.

Perhaps it is not the justice that some of you would like to see. I for one am not an idealist, although I wish that we lived in the world you envision. I know that this man's war on us will not stop by merely turning the other cheek. I don't think that any of us really relish the idea of sending our boys to Afghanistan, but if that is the cost to bring bin Laden down, than we will pay it. We've never shirked from it before and we will not do so now. And we know that it will cost. We know that some of our men will die in a war torn poverty stricken third world country far from home. We will go anyway. Not just for ourselves but for everyone. I am proud of those nations that usually spit the name of USA followed by a curse, that have stood up to say "this is too much". Arab nations people have even seen the wrongness in this. Arab nations who have been damage perhaps in some sense as much as we have. Islam means surrender. How terribly abused this religion has become, how much has been respect has been lost by moslems because of acts like this. Terrorist acts under the banner of war.

As far as Bush calling it a crusade and making references to God....Well I don't see a problem with him talking about a relationship with God. Nowhere I think did he force us to become Christian. I am not Christian and I did not feel threatened/appalled by his references to God. As to a Crusade...I can understand the idea behind the statment, however I don't really think it was the best way to put it.

So my point, at great length I know, is that I for one applaud the President. I applaud the nations that are standing behind us on this, because it could have happened to any of them. I applaud the efforts of the movie stars/comedians/musicians who stood upt to try and raise money for those in New York. The stories of the people who were on the ground that day moved my wife and I to tears at some points. How could it not? Who has a heart so cold that they didn't feel the pain and loss of America by watching that program? Yes, I applaud that effort. I applaud the people, the corporations, the police/fire depts, that have stepped up and made their own donation funds.

What is wrong with Americans? Nothing, we are just like you, but Proud. We love this place and we will always step up and defend it. You know, we'll even tell you how much we love America, and we'll listen to you tell us that we are arrogant for thinking there is nowhere in the world better, but we won't believe you. We are United, our actions prove it. There is more to our country than our arrogance, there is more to us than our pride. Don't like us, that's fine we won't lose sleep over it. And likewise, I know that I've changed probably no one's mind on how they feel about the country, but that is ok. We are used to people disagree with us, it happens all the time, even amongst ourselves. Maybe that's why people think we are arrogant....I don't know.

I felt compelled to post this here. Lest everyone thing that there aren't any Americans who are standing behind the president and that we are all hopelessly trapped into following whatever course he sets for us.

Looking forward to the debate (Heated I'm sure)
--Perium

I find it difficult to define what American (or rather USA, America is a big continent) culture is. How would you characterise it ?

Are the terrorist events in the US really an unprovoked attack? Since 1945 the US Government has bombed 20 countries, killing, maiming and destroying millions of people's lives. Recall the Indo-China war, the funding of death squads in Central America and Colombia, the sanctions and air strikes against Iraq The US remains the largest supplier of "conventional weapons" in the world.

Until such time as a country or group claims responsibility for the attacks m the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, then all anyone can do is speculate as to who has carried out this atrocity.

But who is Osama bin Laden? During the 1980s, resistance fighters in Afghanistan developed a worldwide recruitment and support network with the aid of the US, Saudi Arabia and other states. After the 1989 Soviet withdrawal, this network, which equipped, trained and funded thousands of Muslin fighters, came under the control of Osama bin Laden ...

The sheer audacity of the desperate, despair-driven suicide bombers of the Middle East will never be overcome by the calculated arrogance, wealth and military power of the US and its obsession to control the world's resources at enormous cost to even its own people. The Washington Post editorial of September 11 said, "No matter how long it may take us to overcome this premeditated invasion, the American people in their righteous might will win through to absolute victory." Let us hope that the US Government will not go down that track. Victory for whom?
I feel deeply for those Americans whose lives were taken and for their relatives, and we all grieve at this unspeakable crime. Why is it, though, that these words and these feelings are not apparent worldwide about the sanctions that have destroyed the lives of half a million innocent civilians in Iraq?

Why do we turn a blind eye to the US bankrolling Israel's war? Why do we continue to allow one nation in the Middle East to ignore UN Security Council resolutions? Why can't we see the tragedies of the impact that US policies have on other civilians in other lands?

I feel for my American friends and families and am reminded of the visit to New Zealand in the 80s of two Sandinistas involved in the struggle for their people in Nicaragua. Their parting words were: "The American Government is our biggest enemy, the American people are our biggest ally."

I think that is a strange question.

What is the British culture?
How about NZer?
Australian?
Saudi?

How about Moslem?
Christian?
Pagan? ( no that is a loose term )


The thing that makes it strange is that your answers have a tendancy to be different everytime you ask someone else. I don't know that I can define what our culture is. I would have to ask all of my countrymen and women. It would have to include the sum of what everyone says, because that is what makes this country...us.

Think about what my country is. We are ALL transplants from somewhere else. Some of us were British, some where Scots, some where Irish, Pakistani, Hindu, Afghani, Arab...name the culture, some of them live here. (more than likely, I don't want to split hairs)

Define my culture? The sum of all of the cultures who have been brought here is my answer.

Listen to Don Mclean's splendid record "American Pie". It describes a popular view of US culture as of 25 years ago.

Because of that recent phenonomen - the US educational system being so exceptionally unsuccesful in making students literate - it is outdated.

I do believe i addressed that question, about the 4th post in, somewhere around there. Bu i agree on the fact that not all people hate americans. I should have the subject read "why do some people hate americans"

Zoe, I would refine the question further. I think the dislike of the USA is a dislike of the action the USA government has carried out in the last 50 years, nicely summarised by Loonytunes above.

It is a sad fact and one that has been repeated often in these threads, that the USA education system and media view world events as a minority interest. Several years ago in a study by the National Endowment for Humanities found 42% of high school seniors couldn't name a single country in Asia.

So the question becomes, "Why do some people hate the USA's governments attitude to the rest of the world, and despise the ignorance of the vast majority of its citizens to what has been done in their name over the last 50 years" OK its a bit longer....


ChawkE

The press is free in all western countries and many 'eastern' ones too: Pakistan, for example, maintained a free press all the way through its military coup.

...but only as long as they can keep going.

A TV show in USA is facing closure as it can't get any more advertising after suggesting that suicide pilots were not cowards, whilst those who press a button to fire a $10Million missile to blow up a tent far away are.

There is always an alternative voice, but if it can't be heard by those who would benifit from hearing it and all they do hear is a biased point of view I would say that the press has had its "freedom" compromised.

ChawkE

Nod.

The most cowardly act in the whole thing has to be Bush hiding out in Nebraska, for fear of further attacks. Whatever happened to leading from the front?

More like fronting from the lead.

Hi there.

I´ve been trying to catch up with the last 4 days entries so this is some overall comments on that.

First of all to N´spite even though he claims to b outta here.Regarding ur posting 91. Where i live (Denmark), convicts are allowed to vote since we believe everybody should have the democratic right to vote for the people who takes care of their interests.Also foreigners who have lived here for more than one year i think it is, are allowed to vote at local elections.This is just to emphazise that
democracy comes in other shapes and sizes than the american model,also we would never have a situation where the supreme court would have to cast the final vote.As for the legitimacy of USA I don´t think that is an issue here, anyone questioning that can´t be serious.

The question of the media role in all this has been briefly commented upon by a couple of people.What bothers me the most is that all of a sudden this has become "The worst terrorist action ever" in the so-called "free press".I would like to remind people of August 6th 1945.Americans supported by western allies dropped "The bomb" on Hiroshima killing 40.000 civilians injuring 60.000 more in the immediate situation.Three days later the same thing happened to Nagasaki.These were civilian victims, and the purpose was to intimidate the civilian population.Yes u can argue that it was wartime,but does that make it right? I don´t think so!And neither does Rules Of War (wich is a strange xpression anyway).And if u think it is ok to kill civilians in wartime, then people shouldn´t be surprised that american civilians got attacked 11 of sept. as numerous arabic countries has declared war on america during the past many years.And I haven´t even mentioned Vietnam(3.3 million killed),Dresden,Panama,the tv-tower in Belgrade and much more that not only america but the western world (UN,NATO) has the responsibility for.

So why do people hate americans? well do they?Ithink no.

What a lot of people don´t like is america as a political dominant factor that think it can dictate it´s rules on everybody else.

"If ur not with us your with the terrorists" I don´t by that, and especially not from a president getting the presidency on dubious terms.

let me end this entry with a great american voice.

"IT IS NIXON HIMSELF WHO REPRESENTS THAT DARK, VENAL AND INCURABLY VIOLENT SIDE OF THE AMERICAN CHARACTER ALMOST EVERY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD HAS LEARNED TO FEAR AND DESPISE."

Hunter S. Thompson.

And by the way!
Isn´t democracy a strange thing?

U even have the right to elect a dictator as it happened in 1933 in Germany.

Ohh and it´s not Norwegian it´s Norway.But things from Norway can surely b norwegian.

I think that was all for now

Like "Norwegian Wood"

As I sit here history catches up.I´m listening to a documentary on how people in Greenland were moved away from their towns and their cemetaries in the 1950`s to make space for an american base in Thule.This was done with the consentment of the Danish politicians (Greenland is Danish territoty and we haven`t treated them any better than the americans did their native inhabitants).Things like that may also help "hate" on the way.

"WE ALL HAVE OUR PETTY WARS.
I GOT MINE AND YOU GOT YOUR´S."

Bob Weir/John Barlow.

Downuder we often throw another log of Norwegian Wood on the barby (Explanation for Americans - that's a BBQ)

Oh yes and Jude I tend to agree with u a lot of the way.

And Gradient if ur still in here : OK.

Looneytunes

I've just turned on the TV (it's 8am Monday in NZ) and heard the shocking news. Bin Laden has turned up missing.

My guess is that he hasn't really gone missing, He probably got sick of looking like Jesus and dumped the beard.