h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

does the minor realize what (s)he doing?
does the minor stay at home?

I asked these questions, not for answer, but let you realize that a lot of minors on H2G2 are smart enough to see between real life and on the net.

Thanks, Ben.

Wearily,
Deidzoeb

Thank you Barton.
Having now read the rest of the thread I can understand your position.

However, I feel I must reiterate

1: EVERYONE has the right to free speech and freedom of expression.
By definition that includes 13 year olds, whether highly intelligent or not.

2: Have you eavesdropped on the private conversations of young to mid teens lately?

Children are exposed to all sorts of influences far earlier these days than they were when you were young, or even when your own children were, and consequently grow up much faster.
My comment about hanging around on street corners, taking drugs, shoplifting for kicks, engaging in acts of senseless vandalism, taunting old ladies and torturing animals was not just plucked from some theoretical ether.
I don't know about your locality, but in most parts of this country, even latterly in rural areas, that is the reality for most young teenagers.
By your own account you received a privileged upbringing. This, no doubt, coupled with your innate superiority enabled you to cushion your children from the 'evils' of modern life and perhaps you may even succeed in swaddling your grandchildren in cotton wool but the vast majority of us just don't have the resources to do so, even should we wish to.

You can't force children to develop in a vacuum. Believe me, it is the worst kind of cruelty and neglect.
It's wrong to condemn them to a life of naiveté and confusion to satisfy your own need to believe in the innocence of childhood.

You assume that I would not encourage or permit my teen-aged children to log on under adult seeming names and to participate in these fantasies?
Well, we couldn't afford a computer at that time, but my daughter started watching soap operas at 13. She thought they were the most utter load of rubbish, and I certainly didn't want her exposed to them, but she would not otherwise have been able to participate in the playground discussions.

When my older children were 14, 15 and 16 we discovered one of their friends was smoking cannabis. (His parents, incidentally, belonged to an extremely strict fundamentalist religion - the consequences of their finding out don't bear thinking about). I asked my 16 year old not to try it until after his exams and all three of them informed me that I shouldn't worry - they'd already tried it and rejected it.
They have subsequently told me that they were exposed to hard drugs at school at the age of 13 - and many of their friends fell victim.

Even back in the early 70s my 13 and 14 year old cousins and their friends had a stash of pornographic magazines buried in the local park.

Given no information at all even highly intelligent young people are unable to work out, from first principles, what will be safe, or right.
I had an extremely restrictive upbringing. No television, radio, visits to friends houses, not even allowed Girl Guide membership - and definitely no explanations.
When I was 17 I fell in love with an equally innocent 22 year old (in church actually ). It took us FOUR MONTHS to work out that I was pregnant, even though I was still technically a virgin.

My children have had the same genetic and educational advantages as you, or I, but I have made d*** sure they had sufficient information to allow them to make informed choices about their life experiences.

Anything else is sheer irresponsibility.

This is incomplete and probably doesn't make a lot of sense but I have to post it now and go and collect a carful of preteens.

Um, P'raps I'm just dense or summat, but so far I can't see a problem.
I followed the link to the dungeon wherein Niwt and Art were interacting and it reminded me more of the sort of sword and sorcery books my 9 year old reads than owt else.
Looked like a bit of harmless fun and I wouldn't have been surprised to find something similar in, say, Camelot (tho I haven't got round to visiting there yet either.....)

Barton, do you seriously expect today's kids to sit with their noses in Shakespeare (No, strike that - too raunchy) er, Walt Whitman ( that won't do either) um, Enid Blyton (No, too many kids getting tied up there), er, Hornblower? Treasure Island?
Oh well, anyway, in the unlikely event that you could persuade them to tell you, you'd be surprised at how much your kids have kept from you in order to protect your innocence.

It is perhaps a little mean to try to prick your little hermetic bubble but it would be far worse if we allowed the whimpering of small-minded fundamentalists to drag us back into the dark ages of ignorance and intolerance.

I haven't been to the manor yet, but, judging from what I have gleaned from this thread, if I were to find one of my little ones playing somewhere similar I would be far more likely to stay and play with them than go over the top and start screaming for censorship.
Anything children aren't ready for goes straight over their heads.
Conversely, aught they can recognise and understand they're obviously ready for.

On the other hand both my daughter and I were made extremely uncomfortable by the episode of The Simpsons, shown twice within a matter of weeks, at prime viewing time for young children, in which Homer tried to stop Bart being/becoming (as he thought) gay.
We would rather not have our children exposed to that kind of thinking, but it's not going to go away...


Did you know there's a list of books that Roman Catholics are forbidden to read?
Yes, ADULT, educated, intelligent, Roman Catholics.
I've been trying to get hold of it for years. If they're banned I want to read them.


Mina,
I would be upset at someone persistently accusing me of, effectively, lying (which is what insisting on the veracity of something someone has consistently denied is, isn't it?) but post 216 seemed pretty innocuous - in fact, rather placatory.
Why that one?

I do wish Barton would stop using the phrase "LCD thinking". My mind keeps conjuring up animate calculators and digital clocks.

beep beep beep

Subcom, I was just making an observation as opposed to laying blame. (Thanks, Ben )I think everyone should be allowed to state his or her views, and if they think people are being harmed then they have the right to try to prevent that happening. I also think that limiting our freedom of expression lessens the potential h2g2 has to be a guide to life, the universe and everything.

Over a year ago I was laughing myself silly when I learned that h2g2 doesn't allow for erect penises, when I started picturing the repercussions that would have in the history of real world. Now some people are disturbed by the harm that might be perpetrated through dominant/submissive role playing. Maybe the staff will decide that in order to run the site responsibly they need to disallow that sort of thing. We'll see what happens. I can forsee the day when someone decides that all the virtual cocktailing that goes on here will lead our tender youth to underage drinking, smoking, and eventually herion. It's the first step to perdition, ya know.... gotta nip it in the bud.

*subversively sips a BEFORE NOON! while it's still legal...*

All of the content on site, including Foxy Manor, has passed moderation. If you see any content on h2g2 that you think might break the Terms and Conditions of h2g2 please register a complaint using the 'yikes' button. The material will be removed if it is found to be in breach of the Terms and Conditions of the site.

The content of Foxy Manor is seen to be based on innuendo, of a type which is often featured across the BBC. For example, innuendo and humour is an element of what's on offer at the web site of the national pop music station's breakfast host: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/saracox/home.shtml More generally, themes that might be considered "adult" in nature are a feature of the BBC TV soap opera 'Eastenders' - this programme is screened at 7.30pm weeknights, and is very popular with schoolchildren. The soap has featured, amongst others; an incestuous child rape, underage teenage pregnancies, venereal disease, drugs, AIDs, sexual harassment and murder. The audience themselves develop many of these themes in the Eastenders Fantasy plot line message board here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/cgi-perl/h2/h2.cgi?state=view&board=eastenders.fantasy&offset=0 It should be noted that all of this content of course should comply with the same set of BBC editorial guidelines which cover content on h2g2.

The House Rules of h2g2 state that children under the age of 18 should get their parents' or guardians' permission before taking part in h2g2 or any other BBC Discussion Message Board. It's obviously strongly advisable that any parent who allows their child access to the Internet supervises their activity whilst they are online.

We're always happy to discuss any areas of h2g2 with the parents of children on h2g2 and have done so on a number of occasions. Because we've had direct contact with h2g2 parents we're aware that some of the parents hold their children's h2g2 passwords, and let them log on and participate in a fully supervised way. We think this is an excellent idea and we would always work to support parents who want to supervise their children's online activities.

Unfortunately it isn't technically possible to create an 'over 18' area of h2g2 at the moment, nor is it necessarily desirable from the point of view of the wider community. We'd prefer to keep the content on h2g2 at the current level of 'mature', rather than 'adult only'. That way everyone can continue to participate and enjoy the site as widely as possible.

Of course we do agree that there is indeed a danger of children accessing offensive material on the Internet generally. Perhaps you might like to discuss the subject with the rest of the Community? It's obviously a lengthy debate that could be discussed for some time and from many viewpoints. We'd be interested in reading the Community's views on how minors should be encouraged to participate safely online.

*pulls hat down over face; coughs; looks furtively around...*

So, dude: is this, ah, 'Eastenders' out on video?

What on earth are "adult seeming names"?
Surely all names pertain to all ages?

Re: post 248:

But then again, what do I know? I used to think an innuendo was a suppository.

Ay theng yo.

H.

I thought that "innuendo'is by Queeun song

I am not English. just person from lowlands.

i have never watched anything like East Enders but i am glad they have shown things like that. The first man that did anything to me was the school caretaker when i was 11 and i did not know anything about any sort of people least of all men so i did not know that was not permissible.
The children that are wanted and loved are taught how to react to things but the ones that nobody wants can only learn from watching and listening and they are often too scared of making mistakes to go out where people might notice them.
This is a good place and it is a safe place and it is a place where people can learn to pretend to be human.
You are all nice people and you all care about other people
Please do not tear each other apart.

Now we have had the official line from h2g2 Editors, saying what I have been saying all along. Thank you.

Tefkat, I yikesed that one in particular because at the time it was the latest one accusing me of sexual/erotic play. I could have yikesed them all, but I'm sure the moderators and italics would not have been impressed at having 'n amount' of messages to scroll through. If it had been upheld I would have gone and yikesed them all.

In combination with Post 248, I think that this probably ought to give us all pause for thought.
Thank you Peta for the clarification, and to The Ban Sidhe for reminding all of us just why we are here.
I for one intend to leave this forum now and do something constructive. It's too short a life for all this stuff really.

all round.
Barton.

Calamity Schrodinger,

Thank you for the hug.

Editors,

Thank you for taking the time to consider this and for explaining the basis for your decision.

Everyone,

I am, of course, still concerned that minors may become participants in the Manor (perhaps, even more so now). I will need to consider how to deal with those worries. Obviously, they are goundless unless something illegal happens in one of these games which I certainly hope it will not.

As I have been accused here, my concern was *only* in protecting the children from influences that might have led them into postions where they might have been in danger or exploited while still minors.

I have never been opposed to the Manor or what goes on there or any other fora on h2g2.

I have always been in favor of proper education of children. (And sometime I'll tell you the story of how my sun was being offered automatic weapons through his bedroom window by his friends to use to protect himself when he was called out by a gang. I understand the world and the frustrations of raising a child in it.)

There is no longer any point in discussing this issue here.

Thank you all for having participated.

Barton

Re Hoovooloo's post 251

"But then again, what do I know? I used to think an innuendo was a suppository"

Did I ever tell y'all about the time I had to buy pessaries in a Swedish pharmacy....?

B

I really hope I see the punchline to this before it gets moderated....

H.

New. Very confused. Somewhat alarmed. What have I got into? If I knew how you do those little emoticons, I'd put a scared one in. Er, and I am of age and then some, if it is relevant.

Obscured at the moment,

~Silent Lucidity~

Click on any of the emoticons and you will be taken to the emoticon help page. If you are using Internet Explorer,hold your mouse over one and you will see the name pop up put that name between angle brackets as in < z e n > without the spaces gives

So much for the fluffy stuff, what is scaring you?

Barton