h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

This post has been removed.

Happy, urban greening is not just a direct effort to save trees and birds and other stuff. You are right, an urban gardener does not have lots of land and it will help little to plant trees in a few square yards of garden while millions of hectares of forests are being destroyed every day to make room for farms. And we must put pressure on politicians and on big business to implement more environmentally sane policies.

But see, urban greening fits right in with that. Before you can exert influence on politicians, you have to be a big enough group of people. An urban greening project might be started by one person, but from there it spreads out and more and more people get involved with it. And soon enough the entire city is involved with it, and everybody can see the results. The city is suddenly beautiful and interesting, balanced and filled with a complex web of life. And you suddenly have an entire city that is environmentally aware, everybody's attitude has been changed, and you have a huge group of people that can put great pressure on the politicians and businesspeople. In fact, those politicians and businesspeople will probably change their attitudes automatically when they see the enthusiasm that ordinary people have for planting wild trees and plants and letting the wildlife back into the cities. The same attitude will also spread to farms.

I don't just plant trees in my garden. I sell them and donate them and encourage other people to do the same. And not just in city areas. This morning I sold thirty three trees for planting on a farm. And not for the sake of profit, but to make the farm more beautiful, to speed up the restoration of its original forest cover, to draw birds and other forms of life. Farmers are becoming ecology and conservation conscious. On the parts of their farms not used for crops they replant wild trees and enrich the ecology, and there are currently farms that also serve as private nature reserves. We also have game farming, where the country is left totally wild and wild game are used as a source of meat. There is also trophy hunting, which I am not much in favor of, but it provides a source of income and a use of nature that is sustainable over the long term. Personally I hope that we can utlimately switch from shooting with a gun to shooting with a camera. A good picture is in fact a better trophy, harder to achieve, than a lethal shot. And you leave the animal alive for others to admire. But this is also an attitude change that will have to come about over the long run. In the meantime getting farmers tree and ecology conscious is having an effect, and urban efforts therefore do spread out to a wider region.

Next year I will sell that same farmer fifty trees, and the year after that a hundred, and so on, and other farmers will also start becoming enthusiastic, and the project will just keep gaining momentum until it involves the entire country, the entire continent, the entire world. It is a tiny ripple that will soon grow into a huge wave, just watch and see.

So you see the idea is to change people's attitudes. Before you can change POLITICIANS' or BUSINESSPEOPLE's attitudes, you have to change the attitudes of the VOTERS and the BUYERS. By telling ordinary people about trees and birds and animals, about nature conservation, about ecology, about biodiversity, and by providing a concrete service in the form of wild trees and other plants for replanting in denuded areas, I am contributing to this attitude change. I am by far not the only one. In this country we are now only beginning to see the results of work that has been started more than a century ago. But it is still going on and starting to bear fruit now - people are at last starting to see nature with new eyes, and they are getting into it in huge numbers. South Africa is probably one of the most ecologically aware countries in the world, and we make huge contributions to global conservation - if not for our efforts both the black and the white rhinos might now have been decimated beyond recovery. But still we have a long way to go and therefore every little bit helps. Every person who plants even one wild tree, whether it is in his garden or on a farm or on a denuded patch of wild countryside, is making a positive contribution, not just towards the direct local conservation of nature, but also to the attitude change that will ultimately enable us to implement conservation and sustainable management of nature on a global scale.

Happy, there are lots of different ways to help. Every person has a particular situation, and different people will find different strategies to be more, or less, appropriate for them. In this forum I will talk about a great variety of problems and also a great variety of strategies for dealing with them. I hope many other people will do the same. But I believe that all of these strategies ultimately have the same thing in common: they involve a new, positive, loving and caring, responsible attitude to the world in which we live, and to the people, animals and plants that share it with us.

Ok I've spent my life split 50/50 between the Big City (London) and Rural (Peak District) you will have to excuse me if that leaves me a bit cynical.

This post has been removed.

This post has been removed.

This post has been removed.

Your picture doesn't show! What's the problem? I would like to look at it!

You ask yourself if you are perhaps going slightly mad. Well, I have to ask myself every day if I'm not a totally spaced out flaming raving looney. I intend to make a difference to the world. But individually I seem to be nothing. All I say is, nuts to that! I am NOT alone. You started a forum on my page saying "Lots of people think like you" ... and that is true. I am not alone. WE are not alone. There are many of us ... but why are we not linked up and co-ordinated better? Why is there so little co-operation between the people most driven to make a difference?

We are isolated and believe we are a small minority and feel confused and powerless. And we are distrustful - we are not sure of each other's motives. We are people who have been oppressed, exploited, violated, disillusioned. No wonder we are distrustful. But we have to find a way to get beyond that. But when that is done - the world had better get ready for us!

Forging links and bonds - but of the kind that don't restrain or confine us or weigh us down - that is the monster challenge. There are the guys of primalseeds - they seem to be doing a good job, so I'm tentatively reaching out to them. But if their agenda ever becomes "twisted" in the future I'll need to draw back again. The same goes for any other kind of "save the world" organisation. Initially good motives often get twisted towards a shortsighted agenda, and many organisations are fighting with each other instead of agreeing on mutual goals and values.

So we need to TALK a lot about the distinctions between the good, the bad and the trivial areas. For instance, these are the goals I consider important:

1) Every individual human being must be encouraged as much as possible and given all the possible means and opportunities to develop as fully as possible. That means physical development - good health and a long, active, life - as well as mental development - reasoning power, memory, imagination and all other mind skills. I would also include the aspect called the "spiritual" which is unfortunately still a matter of controversy.
2) Every non-human living creature must be encouraged as much as possible and given all the possible means and opportunities to develop as fully as possible AS A SPECIES. We must assure that every species has strong numbers and strong, healthy, stable populations. We must assure that their habitats are rich and extensive. As far as is reasonable we must also try and minimize the misery of individual animals, but individuals cannot meaningfully be protected against predation, for instance, without disrupting the cycles of nature.
3) Humanity as a species must always accept responsibility for the welfare of non-human species, and of ecosystems, and of all future generations of humans.
4) Humanity as a species must endeavour to learn as much about itself and the universe as possible. Knowledge must be disseminated as widely as possible among humans and all other sentient creatures.
5) Humanity as a species must endeavour to spread life and consciousness, knowledge and understanding as widely as possible throughout the universe.
6) Humanity as a species must endeavour to extend the functional lifespan of the universe - by which I mean the period during which sentient life will be able to exist - as much as possible. If there are other inhabitable universes, we must try and reach them. If other inhabitable universes can be "constructed", we must do that.

So these are GOALS, PURPOSES. These are good things towards we should strive. There is no set point where we can say "OK, we did what was necessary, now we can stop." The goals are open-ended; we never actually reach any finish line, we just go forward and forward, better and better, for ever and ever. As a summary, a principle: "All life is mega-hyper-ultra-Sacred-to-the-max, and it is up to anyone capable of understanding this value to protect and promote it in any possible way."

These goals go way, way beyond the goals of most typical people. But is that not perhaps what we need? If people started thinking "big thoughts" like these, would it not already start a change to the way things are done? I think so. So, how do you get people to think "big thoughts"? I personally think we must use pictures! Which is why I really want to see yours! But I will also draw lots of pictures myself - pictures of all the strange and beautiful and good things in the world, pictures to illustrate the points I am trying to get across, pictures of different utopias as I see them in my mind. The thing has to start taking on a concrete form, it has to turn visible - open people's eyes, and their minds will also open. Show them things they would never have imagined. Bring them visions that are new and true. Show them your dreams.

My mind is bursting with ideas. It is difficult to put them down in words - by the time I have typed one word I have thought of a hundred more, and still I don't know if any of them are the right ones. It is difficult to maintain clearness and coherence. I want to talk about human psychology, about the education of children, about health and longevity, about teaching people to be creative, about language and philosophy and culture and art and music, about history, politics and society, about human relations, interaction and communication, about science and technology, about nature and ecology, about religion, about the ultimate nature of reality, about the way we are going, about the past, the present and the future. This is the project. This is what everybody must know about. This is what we need to do. This is what I need to do. I need help with this.

Am I crazy? Am I alone? Will anybody be willing to try and tackle things that are so completely, utterly and ludicrously impossible?

How, and why, did I come across this particular passage of prose at precisely this point of my life?

It comes from the book "The Evolving Brain" by Tony Buzan and Terence Dixon. Please read it. It is long, but incredibly relevant to what we have been saying here:

A DEVELOPING AWARENESS

"At this present moment in earth's history, and for the first time in earth's history, all earth's disparate civilisations and different mental streams are inexorably merging. The consequent confusion, fear, culture shock, and tendency to gloomy prediction is understandable, and can be lessened by looking at the major factors in the 'mix' and further looking ahead to the analogically prognosticated time of future calm.

In observing, Western Man has traditionally excluded himself from the event he was observing. Thus he assumed that he had no effect on the minute particles he weighed and measured, and also assumed that he had no effect on the living organisms whose 'objective' behaviour he tried to understand. He has carried this tendency to an extreme when considering the future of his societies, measuring and predicting only on the basis of sociological and psychological assumptions and generalisations, assuming that what measured is, and not that what is measured can be changed.

Man's oversight in not measuring himself more accurately (a strange form of modesty!) has led him to conclusions that he would not have reached had he had more Knowledge. It is necessary, therefore, in order to gain a more complete understanding of our current situation, and a more probabalistic interpretation of our future, to look very closely at the main factor in all these discussions. This main factor is not the theories of economics or psychology, nor is it the 'basic aggressiveness of man' nor is it the 'irreversible tide of history'. The main factor, almost blindingly obvious, is that variable in the equation which is ubiquitous, which has been the subject of this book, and which in large part records, controls and directs the rest of the equation: the human brain.

In our increasing understanding of this incredibly complex and mysterious organ, in our increasing understanding of ourselves and our fellow men, and in our increasing understaning of the interconnectedness and relativity of all things, lies the hope for the future.

In the ideally-envisioned future, mind will be in tune with the body, mind with mind, and mind and body with the environment. The word 'selfish' will come to mean the same as the word 'altruistic', for anyone who is truly concerned with himself, being totally interlinked with everything around him, would be truly concerned for everything.

The divisive political systems of today will grow into bodies that will genuinely function for the good of all, and individuals within the society will be, by definition, totally interested in both the individual and the group, loving in the sense of desiring self-fulfilment for the beloved, with incidental self-fulfilment for the lover - each individual intimately and sensitively aware of the unique needs of him or herself and of the similarly unique needs of others.

Abstractions such as 'state' or 'nation' will no longer be exalted, for individuals will more realistically be aware of the true nature of our changing realities.

In such a state, conflict would arise not from an automatic fear and hatred of strangers, nor from a clash of wills based on half-truths considered as absolutes, but only from misunderstandings due to imperfect knowledge; misunderstandings that could be considered and painstakingly worked out by exchange-of-information. In such a future world, mechanical computers will no longer be feared, and will have taken their appropriate place as assistance to the biological meta-and-supercomputers that gave them existence.

Languages, as they are beginning to do already, will blend into a single world language in which the subtleties, nuances, and numberless and unique cultural perceptions and informations will be shared by everyone.

In this new renaissance (for that is surely what it will be) medicine, communication, business and education will undergo gigantic changes for the better; a new polymath will arise, and he will be supported by most people, educated to use his latent abilities to their full potential - no longer will the isolated envisionary have to live in deprived circumstances suffering the rejection of others, but will be allowed to work in an atmosphere of social acceptance and encouragement; the fundamental principles of psychology, physics, art and chemistry, etc. will probably be established as similar; and war between Man and Man will no longer exist. For Man is not warlike. His 'warlike' nature is based probably not on an innate desire to attack, but on an innate desire to preserve. Whenever he has been seen as violent, it is because he has 'truthfully-to-himself' defended the position he has considered to be right. The only 'error' in this affection was that he assumed he had complete knowledge of 'rightness' which in fact he had not at that time had the opportunity to receive. From the areas of both brain research and information theory, the nature of the relativity of that knowledge is now becoming apparent.

Such an utopia for mankind is only one of the vast array of filamental probabilities stretching into the future. Each filament can be swayed or broken by events as significant as the death of a world leader, or as apparently insignificant as 'the wink of an eye, a careless word, a misplaced grain of sand...'

Looming behind these possibilities, and capable of exerting more influence on them than everything else, is the brain and the mind of Man. With things as uncertain and as fluctuating as they are at present time, it is essential that this enormous power be set towards realising the porbabilities that will enable forthcoming generations to write magnificent future histories."

The book is "The Evolving Brain", by Tony Buzan and Terence Dixon, published by Douglas David & Charles Limited, Vancouver BC. It is probably not in print any more. I would like to quote more pieces from this book at later times.

But the utopian vision of these passages is one that fits in very well with ours so far, does it not? And the final point is one I agree with: the battle to be fought is one of concepts, ideas, values and emotions, and the battleground will be the human mind.

No amount of money or weaponry can overwhelm a good idea whose time has come.

This post has been removed.

Wazungu, thanks a lot for the link to the info on native British plants. I will study that - I will ask a few people for codes - and encourage people to get with the program! I was very happy to see that - I had no idea the British were that sensible, ecologically speaking! Your country can be so beautiful - I really hope that this can become a very powerful restorative movement. It may even contribute towards the possibility of bringing back large creatures at some future date. Raise people's awareness, a little bit here, a little bit there and soon the little bits add up to a huge wad.

Hi, Jenny, at least your picture shows up now! Did you read posting 27? What do you think of the six goals I expressed there?

But what I think is very good about your approach is that we can decide that something is in the grey area. If there is even one positive thing to be said for something it should go into the grey area. So this area will be very broad, which means we can talk about it a lot, but the goal would be to eventually get it out of the grey area and into either the good or the bad, and everybody should agree on this. But we must also admit that some stuff may stay forever in the gray, and that we must then accept.

The mere existence of the grey area is a foil for extremism. As driven as I am, I am not an extremist: I believe that balance and harmony is always best. The argumentation and discussion can be about just where the best balance should lie.

Unaccountable corporations and organisations: this I see as an outflow of the dehumanised view of life people are taught. In schools and universities they teach facts but not values. They teach people to excell, but not to feel, to care. Emotion is seen as something bad. When somebody gets upset or involves their personal feelings it is seen as unprofessional and makes other people uncomfortable. This is just so totally insane. We are humans and first and foremost we are sensitive beings with feelings and those feelings drive us to do
everything that we do. Remove the feelings, we become empty shells and what we do becomes ridiculous, serving no purpose. Bring back the human heart into the theory, and maybe then corporations and organisations will change. I mean how many rich people are there in the world who aren't really happy because they ignored feelings and values? If you cause unhappiness, you experience unhappiness. They should teach karma in business college.

Yes, we should engage the people in these organisations in debate. We will need lots of facts and figures though because at first they will be impressed by that and not by feelings and appeals to their decency. But every human has a small speck of common sense and kindness, even if it's hidden away very deep. So we must believe we can succeed in changing hearts and minds.

I have too many ideas. You'd better restrict me a bit to get something that you can use. But here is one - we must use more pictures. You used a picture just at the same time as I started thinking intensively about it. And it can work! Diagrammatic pictures, with images as metaphors and symbols, with intricate patterns and many beautiful colours. The info must be useful, and the layout and the colors should enhance the meaning and the impact and suggest paradise. We are dealing with visions, after all. I will try to put up examples of what I mean. I am going to try and illustrate how we can use pictures (of the kind you don't need an art degree to draw) to enhance communication.

Here's another idea: we need to pull more people into this forum. Have you been trying? At the very least I hope that Wazungu will be joining us regularly from now on. But there are many other potential utopians. I will try and do a bit more recruiting, I'm sure you won't mind.

And yet another. Why don't you post a lot of links about the IMF and the WTO and about Globalisation? You know about that stuff. Don't just list them, discuss the websites and talk about your own opinions. This is a CONCRETE aspect that I know very little about and I'd like to know more. I envision that here will be a lot of grey areas. I hope that JLC will also come in from time to time to talk about that, she has some interesting perspectives.

You probably know by now that my own forte is environmentalism and deep human values. In fact I tend to go a bit more deeply than most people are comfortable with. Even so I believe that here we have a potential bit of goodstuff and I would like to know if people here would be openminded enough to talk about it. We can put it into the grey area straight away, but I hope to demonstrate that it fits in with and makes sense of a whole lot of the stuff we have been talking about. I mean metaphysical speculations about the nature of humans, about spirituality, about good and evil, truth and justice seen from a cosmic perspective - holism, the interconnectedness of everything that exists, meaning and purpose on a cosmic scale. I want to talk about a universal ethic, and I want to post links to a website that discusses that, as well as other really far-out stuff. But it is utopian, and I will present evidence to suggest that it is actually grounded in reality. But what I don't want to do is to confuse anybody, and there is rather a risk of that. Personally I think the potential benefits outweigh the risks. But this is another thing we can talk about and see if we can get it from the grey area into either the goodstuff or the badstuff.

Like we saw elsewhere, there are a number of really kooky theories about what's going on in the world. In a really active utopian forum there will probably be sober and realistic people as well as new agers and conspiracy theorists and many more. I believe we must establish a very wide patch of common ground that allows enough tolerance for long and open discussion. And I think we must look for what is good in every view. When something is in the grey area we must first of all try to see if we can make it into goodstuff, if necessary by the smallest necessary modification. In the end, the more goodstuff we can have, the better. If we can make good some of the things that used to be bad, so much the better.

I hope to send more specific info hopefully in the form of a picture. Maybe tomorrow night.

I will try to get the picture made into a webpage. Each title or icon will lead to a webpage of links, quotes, and perhaps we can set up poll voting on some of these pages or issues, and get lots of conversation forums going. I have been scouting h2g2 for quotes to use on these pages, and before i use a quote from someone in a forum, I will ask them if that's okay, if they want to include any links with thier quote, and if they would like to to join us in the utopia cafebar.

I will see if I can talk happydude into helping out with this - he's a groovy website dude.

I will also try to get some work done IRL!

jen

The problem we have not addressed
is the origin of the value of our goals
that we should follow.
Personally I do not believe in the objective
vale status of any thing.
But I think on a purely functional level
we can address this.
Human life is a subset of life and life is
an enclave of ordered process therefor
(as I see it) what ever would allow for life
to prosper and tend towards its goals to the
greatest extent has vale (though even this is just
subjective vale).
I think If we follow this maxim through we do reach
meny ideas about ecology and human rights
that arise through utility.
ummm...
I think that the way to address these issues
properly is not always political. I believe that
the anserw lies in education. Currently our
education system is not about knowledge or real understanding
it is about memorising facts and shallow
reteric. This is what I feel must be addressed first.

Hear Hear JK

you aint so unwise after all. Education is crucial if we are going to be able to make informed choices about our future, and develop a future Utopia. I believe that learning should be a life long aim for all of us - I feel that what I learnt at school was so little use compared to what i learn in everyday life, and through books and the web.

It's almost impossible not to be fascinated by this universe - there is so much beautiful stuff to discover and marvel at. The natural inquisitiveness of kids is generally knocked out of them by a dull and prescriptive education, preparing them for a dull and prescribed life. Get a proper job. Drink beer. Watch lots of telly and never bother thinking about big questions, cos only nutters and weirdos do that.

I think we should collectivley expand our horizons, look to the skies and wonder. And there should be much more time for fun.

jenny

This post has been removed.

This post has been removed.

Hello Jk, I promise not to talk about God on this forum! (At least, not directly!) Anyways I agree that the answer lies in education rather than politics. There are shitloads of specific info that people should have but typically lack. This is such a huge problem that I can only go into it one little bit at a time. But take ecology: I think every child should have the opportunity to live for a while in a very complicated ecosystem like a tropical rainforest, along with someone who already knows all the different kinds of creatures and the ways in which they interact. This way every child will get the idea of what nature is really about, and later when he/she learns lots of facts will have a way to interpret the facts and also CARE ABOUT the facts.

This post has been removed.

I blame the bloody
Americans !
The UK government is
fast sinking further
and futher in to the
pockets of big bisness
so it wont be long till we
are as bad as them!

absolutely appaling that frog all was agreed at the conference, and almost entirely down to the business lobbyists (eg big oil, the petro-chemical lobby, tobacco growers, and agribusiness). The more your find out about these industries, and thier open lobbying of governments, the scarier it gets. I will post more links this weekend, I hope, and get the utopia cafebar noticeboard organised into a series of webpages. In the meantime, just try Dupont or Shell in a search engine, and see what comes up (apart from thier shiny corporate homepage)

BTW do you know who was booked next into the conference hall? They couldn't stay to talk any longer, cos it was booked up by an oil company.

Hurray for burning the planet. Fossil Fuels Rule OK.

etc.

*strange, choking noises of frustration and impotence*

GGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

Our methods of dealing with problems and conflicts are grossly inadequate. The UN, for instance, doesn't work. We need some new institutions, we need entirely new setups. Here are some ideas.

SOLUTIONS THAT REALLY WORK

In posting 34 Purplejenny mentions a number of reasons for being angry. Angry at whom? At big business, big politics, the apathy of ordinary people, the whole stupid corrupt and crazy global society we live in. Angry at ourselves!!!

Okay, now we're angry, and with good reason, so what do we do next? This is a problem. At the moment I see enraged environmentalists and human rights activists protesting in all kinds of manners, and there are all kinds of organisations trying to deal with global problems, but I have to wonder whether any of it is having any significant effect. I live in the so-called Third World. We are the target of the shortsighted decisions taken in the so-called First World, the kinds intended to exploit as well as the kinds intended to aid. And down here, the ultimate effects are more or less always negative. Things are getting worse and worse. The people who want to make things better are not succeeding. Often, despite their good intentions, they just make things worse. And because they sit in countries where they cannot see the direct effects of their decisions, they kid themselves that they are doing the right thing.

Just consider one problem: hunger. Many first-worlders are worried about hunger in the world, and here in Africa we often have famines and food shortages. The quick and easy "solution" is to send food. Well, often the food doesn't get to the people it's intended for. There are all kinds of obstacles like corrupt officials and lack of infrastructure and poor organisation that stand in its way. But even if the food DOES get to the hungry people, it solves a problem in the short term but creates more problems in the long term. For instance, the reason for famines in the first place is that the human population growth ALWAYS and INEVITABLY will outstrip the increase of food resources, UNLESS it is artificially constrained. So if you feed the people and do nothing else the problem is just postponed and is given time to become even bigger. You must feed the people and ALSO teach them the importance of birth control. The best thing would be if people chose of their own will to have fewer children, to improve their own and their children's qualities of life. So a vital part of a world-hunger relief strategy has to involve education and an improvement in people's life standards. And that is MUCH, MUCH harder than merely sending food. But without that aspect, in the long run the sending of food is futile. The population will keep growing, the natural resources will be worn down more and more and in the end there will simply not be any more food left over anywhere and there will be so many billions of people that educating them and raising their standards of life will be out of the question. We need to start the educational initiative NOW!!! And that demands that WE be educated, and dedicated, and creative, and organised. My criticism of environmentalists and human rights activists at this present moment is that they do not possess those four qualities in sufficient quantities. We need to work on ourselves as well as on the world. I include myself in this criticism - and I hereby commit myself to trying to improve my own level of understanding and involvement. Will you do the same? Please?

We need to direct our anger into a positive channel. It helps little if we jump about frantically and scream and storm around looking for scapegoats and quick fixes. In solving the problems our goal must be not to DESTROY, but to CREATE. We can destroy political regimes, businesses, industries and organisations - and that will be hard, because they are powerful and will not just drop down dead to oblige us - but unless we can replace these things with institutions that FUNCTION BETTER than the old ones the world will be worse off afterwards, not better. We NEED to bring down regimes and break down institutions, because in the way they are set up they already contain the seeds of their inefficiency. What we need to realise is that it is the UNDERLYING STRUCTURE that needs to be changed, NOT the people who fill the positions in that structure. It has happened so many times that a corrupt government has been replaced by a revolution, but when the revolutionaries filled the positions left by the deposed tyrants, they themselves became just as corrupt and tyrannical because the nature of the system itself fostered that kind of corruption. Hierarchies and bureaucracies have a built-in reactionary inertia: they stay around and maintain themselves against change long after they have become totally inefficient and pointless. Today, thanks to the internet and rapid communication, the setup of countries and organisations can be much more flexible and responsive than ever before, but people are still trapped in the old systems and ways of thinking. We need to open their minds and show them new and better ways of achieving their goals. I still believe that the rich and powerful people who cause the problems are not evil, but merely misguided. I also believe that we can find a win-win solution in every case: for instance, businesses that really care about and empower their employees as well as their customers, and that conduct their business with consideration of the future and the outside environments, will in the long run profit much more than the aggressive and exploitative businesses. We need to show businesspeople that this is the case. We need to restore a relationship between the parties that is beneficial to all sides. I believe that this can be done, but it means that we will have to WORK at it. Think, learn, imagine, talk, plan, work together, on a large scale.