h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Trunt
thank you !

http://www.literatus.net/essay/KinseyReport.html

"The Kinsey Report: Modeling a Frankenstein Man"

Other links
http://www.kinseyinstitute.org/

http://www.jackinworld.com/library/articles/kinsey.html

http://www.umanitoba.ca/manitoban/20030319/features_3.shtml

Alji

Can take the ethics and morality from the bible without keeping god if you feel the need.

As an atheist I do not believe my moral code is weaker than that of a religious person. After all it is what I actually believe in rather than what I am told I should believe.

Morning

Will soon finish work and off to .

Moth

Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

So did I

Breakfast - I have fresh organic hot buttered crumpets and fruit.

az will, as usual,provide the , with a decaf option from me here

Jez - heathen and hungry...

Moth. In view of your nick, I thought I'd tell you this. There is a species of moth which reproduces by rape! The males emerge from pupation before the females, then find females in the pupal stage, bite away the rear of the chrysalis and impregnate the female. Maybe it is consensual in some sense. We will never know!

toxx

Moth



As you know, air is mainly a mixture of nitrogen and oxygen. The nitrogen exists in the form of N2 molecules (two nitrogen atoms in associaton) and oxygen is similarly O2.

Sound propogation is explained here: http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/gbssci/phys/mmedia/waves/edl.html

toxx

http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/gbssci/phys/mmedia/waves/edl.html

"However there have also been some scare stories, usually involving Satanic abuse."

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Don't drag out the Satanic abuse stories. They have never been proved here in the UK and, AFAIK, in the US. OTOH, they do provide an excellent excuse for those inclined to do so to harrass pagans.

"The problem with paedophilia, as distinct from homosexuality, is that expression of the former inevitably damages individuals who are incapable of informed consent."

There is at least one recorded case in the UK where it apparently did not (according to the evidence of the child involved).

" Thus, while I'm willing to admit paedophilia is a natural state for a man to be in,"

As far as we have the evidence, this seems to be the case.

" And regardless of how natural the condition is, it is one that excels in its potential to cause hurt and suffering, and which must therefore be limited and, if possible, eliminated."

Unfortunately, the overwhelming evidence is that paedophilia, as commonly practised, causes great damage. In theory, it might be possible, given the single example I am aware of, to practise paedophilia without damage, but that would require a sensitivity and care which I suspect is beyond the reach of the great majority of those inclined towards it. So, for all practical purposes, I think I agree with you here, Jordan.

"Unfortunately, this therapy may be just as unsuccessful as attempts to 'cure' homosexuals"

From what I've read, it seems that sexual preferences/style is established fairly early - at least by early adolescence (but I'm no expert). I suspect it may be well before this but this is when they first begin to appear in the majority of cases. This does not just include the preferences you quote but also e.g. the inclinations towards sadism/masochism and submission/domination, or fetishism, or all the other manifestations of taste. These are fairly well embedded in the personality. for example, my ex-husband could only achieve satisfaction through extreme sado-masochistic images. This desire was part of parcel of his sexuality from the age of 12. When I researched the subject, it seemed to be tied in (sorry about that!) with his attitude towards his mother, whom he loathed. He underwent years of psychological counselling, none of which helped.

There are some studies into aversion therapy, which seem to indicate a small success rate. However, from memory, part of the problem with aversion therapy was that it could not create a new sexual preference, so, in effect, simply discouraged an existing practise without replacing it with something else. I don't recall any long term studies but suspect that, if there were any, it would show that even the small success rate of this would wear off over the course of time given that the sex drive would still require expression.

I have come to the conclusion, over the years, that all that can be done is to deprive a person of their preferred mode of sexual expression. On the whole, I would have thought that the choice of chemical castration was more humane and effective than any other method, *if* the alternatives were to expect the person to, effectively, not express their sexuality through sheer will power and hound them down/imprison them if they slipped. But who would ever choose that?

Right on, HS. Plus what does it matter in whose name it is done? I'm sure the child would be no happier if it were abused for pure pleasure than for some propitiatory ritual or whatever.

toxx

Toxx
lots of animals , insects etc operate sexually along these lines, but in the case of the moth you mention presumabley the definition of Rape is 'not consensual' therefore there isn't really any doubt is there? although in the case of pupal stage one imagines that even if asked the pupae might just wonder what the question meant

Plus thank you for the links

"I'm asking what is for a proposition to be 'true for' someone as opposed to just plain 'true'. Is it just a way of saying that the person believes it, which of course doesn't make it true at all!"

Toxx, dearheart, I and some of my friends struggle daily with many of our fellow pagans on this very issue. The vast majority of pagans wish to see things as they wish to see them, regardless of the evidence. In one recent discussion on the BBC relgious message boards I have encountered someone looking at various figures drawn into art of cultures of the past and told me that I am boneheaded and ignoring the obvious not to be able to see immediately that these are pagan representations, despite their being in churches and part of a specific medieval art movement. Asking for evidence rather than making assumptions based upon one's desires appears not to be in favour with the majority.

"So you accept that the world might have been created by the God of Theism!"

Oh dear, was I so confused? I think there is a big difference between the God of Theism and the sort of forces one encounters within Heathenry which may have set the worlds in motion. We would not use the word 'God' for those.

HS. The odd thing about UK law is that it also prevents paedophiles from accessing familiar substitutes for their preferred mode of sexual expression such as soft porn. If downloading pictures of naked children can save a child from ill treatment, why not? Research suggests that children don't spontaneously concern themselves about nudity.

Here's an amusing anecdote from a naturist site. A naturist family were driving along when, in the open topped sports car in front, a woman stood up and turned round completely naked. The small child in the naturists' car piped up and said; "Oh look mummy. That lady isn't wearing a seat belt. How naughty!"

toxx

Yo, HS babe! If folks wanna live in a fools' paradise, who am I to try to persuade them otherwise. I apologise if I've burst any bubbles.

toxx

"For example, I have five siblings. And I suppose that we are genetically similar (or have I got that wrong?)"

You might be genetically more similar to each other than to the rest of the population, as you all share some mixtures of the genes you derived from parents. But none of your would share the same mixture. That only works for twins, hence the passion with which psychologists pursue studies of twins (to the extent that one psychologist built a great reputation for his twin sutides which were lter discovered to be entirely false).

" But amongst the six of us, having experienced the same upbringing, we have all turned out quite differently. No two of us have responded in the same way to the same experiences. "

But none of you experience the same upbringing. For example, the first child has a period of time without siblings, which differentiates that child from all of his or her siblings. It may also experience pressures centred on being the eldest and therefore expected, as it grows, to take more responsbilities ahead of its siblings. In the same way, each child experiences life diffenently according to its position in the family, and its physical, emotional and mental disposition.

HS. Monozygotic or 'identical' twins at that.

toxx

"Have you not read what Jane Austin has posted here on several occasions? Really, she is a breath of fresh air when it comes to Christians being accepting and tolerant of other's sexuality. "

Fairy Nuff. However, I am seeking to stress that the range of sexuality goes far beyond what most people think of - the sort of stuff which fills the tabloids - and what I have seen Jane post has not been sufficiently, ah, explicit (no, I am *not* talking details of activities! ) to inform me of how far her liberality extends. But, in general, the liberality of the Christians I meet here in this forum is very refreshing, you included.

"Fair enough. But killing to eat is seen more as a means of survival"

That may have been so in the past, but is not with our knowledge of food. Eating meat, for those in the UK without some form of physical disorder which means they need meat protein, is no longer necessary to survival, and so is in the same moral framework as forms of sex which serve no survival purpose.

"I have a personal theory (putting on my tin hat) that most people would be bi-sexual if they didn't have social pressures put onto them from birth to 'behave' in very girl-boy pre-ordained roles."

I would agree, based on the evidence we have of past cultures in various countries. of course, as most women could not (for various reasons) write of their experiences, this is more weighted towards the male, but I suspect that is the same for both sexes.

" Two thousand years ago, who would have ever heard about a man sexually abusing his daughters or sons or his sheep? "

His family?

"What I cannot understand is why so many people find sex and sexuality so personally frightening."

Fear is usually a reaction to aperceived threat. So the question is : what, on a personal level (as opposed to an organisational one, which is about power) is so threatening about sex and sexuality? I suspect it's about change and loss, which are the usually flashpoints.

Most people brought up under the influence of Christianity (which includes people in countries influenced by Christian morality who themselves are not believers) are brought up with the myth that marriages should be (a) happy, (b) faithful and (c) last forever. This implicit mythology is that sex is always happy with one individual and you never need anything else. hence all the angst from wives who write to Agony Aunts when they find their husband masturbates, let alone if he has an affair. If the latter occurs, then it is assumed 'something' is wrong with either/both parties. As far as I'm concerned, it's the whole concept of marriage which is wrong, and predicated on a system which (a) wished to ensure the father could be assured the children of the marriage were of his siring, (b) needed to organise the distribution of property, and (c)
originated in times when a person rarely lived beyond what we would now call middle age. In other words, it was all about property and inheritence, not about sexual or emotional fulfillment. So it isn't surprising it's a mismatch to a society which wishes to build relationships on the latter.

However, people like certainty, and the whole of our society is predicated around marriage - hence the peculiar arguments put forward by the churches as the official line when gay marriage is proposed. Chrsitianity has bound sexuality to this view of marriage, and society has bound marriage to the whole stability of society. So mention sex and it sets off a chain reaction.