h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Well that sounds like pretty bad (and old - turn of the 19th century stuff?) history to me. When people start saying things like 'the individualistic quality of the arab' you can usually tell they're on dodgy ground. Thankfully, medieval and early-modern Spain is something of a specialist topic of mine these days .

For example, the Emirate of Granada was more or less left alone for about a century after the rest of Muslim Spain was conquered. Basically the Kings of Castile wanted to make money from it. There was a long tradition of them collecting parias (tribute of African gold) from Muslim taifa states, which were the little fragments left over after the Cordoban Caliphate collapsed into civil war, which was nothing to do with the Christians who were at that point penned into little kingdoms in the Pyrenees and some other mountains in Galicia (that's the bit in the North-west of the peninsula, basically Leon now).

<<"In 1556 A.D. Philip II promulgated a strict law forbidding Moslems to practice their worship".>>

Muslims were already expelled from Spain by the point. It was the converted 'Moriscos' that were the issue here.

Meanwhile, I'll have a go at the inquisition:
Inquisitors in 1529 knew they were supposed to be merciful if conditions warranted it, and penance rather than execution was the sentence they usually exacted through most of the sixteenth century'.
- Marino, John A & Kuehn, Thomas (editors). 2004. A Renaissance of Conflicts: Visions and Revisions of Law and Society in Italy and Spain. Toronto. pp. 320.

Basically the Inquisition was intended as:
1) A safety valve to divert lower-class unrest caused by the Black Death, economic strains and civil wars. This had previously manifested itself as devestating anti-Jewish pogroms killing tens of thousands. Since Jews and Muslims were property of the monarchs and a large source of revenue, the monarchs were none too pleased about this. The Inquisition failed in this goal, instead fueling the tensions, but it was still nowhere near as brutal as the Pogroms themselves or even the expulsion of the Jews and Muslims of Spain that was the last resort following its failure.

2) Intended to stamp out heresy etc. in order to allow Ferdinand and Isabel to reform the church to be under their control. This was particularly targetted against the coverted Conversos and Mudejars who were suspected (in many cases fairly) of backsliding into their respective Jewish and Muslim past traditions. It should be noted that many of the Inquisitors were themselves Conversos.

This is not to say that the Inquisition didn't do some cruel and terrible things, but the popular perception of it is somewhat exaggerated.

Isabella seems to have been deeply religious, Ferdinand perhaps less so. To call Isabella a fanatic or bigot, though, is probably stretching things. For example in her will she called for the fair treatment of 'Indians', and reparation of any damage that had been done towards them.

Spain didn't become particularly intolerant, but it did catch up with the standards of the rest of western Europe. The Jews were expelled from France and England about two centuries before, for example.

Oh hand on, was that all from the link Astrologica posted? Stuff about rhythms of decline and fall of civilization etc.?

Historiographical theories along those lines are bull, you just end up squashing all the facts into your hypothesis. There was this guy called Toyenbee who made that sort of thing famous. He wrote a history of the world as the decline and fall of great civilizations, trying to see it as each civilization expanding in a period of vigour and then decaying internal once it no longer had to strive to meet internal challenges. Sounds convincing from one angle but just doesn't fit the facts. Then there was this other guy called Marx...

All the quotes I posted were from the link provided by Astro-logica. It seems it was written in 1963 when the author was 72, and his old-world writing style comes through with a blast-if you can ignore the spelling and grammar errors.

What do you think of this book Dr J, MAN AND HIS GODS @ http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/homer1a.htm#TOC

alji

Hannes Alfvén (1908-1995) @http://public.lanl.gov/alp/plasma/people/alfven.html
"To Alfvén, the Big Bang was a myth - a myth devised to explain creation. "I was there when Abbe Georges Lemaitre first proposed this theory," he recalled. Lemaitre was, at the time, both a member of the Catholic hierarchy and an accomplished scientist. He said in private that this theory was a way to reconcile science with St. Thomas Aquinas' theological dictum of creatio ex nihilo or creation out of nothing."

alji

The doctrine of creation ex nihilo is more than just a dictum of Aquinas: the phrase "ex nihilo" is taken literally from 2 Maccabees 7:29, in the Old Testament (St Jerome's Latin Vulgate translation). Christians generally believe God made everything, visible and invisible (cf. Colossians 1:16), so "from nothing" is implied, as for instance when God says "Let there be light" (Genesis 1:3) - and certain other descriptions in the Psalms, Isaiah, and the book of Job.

It's quite convenient for Christians if a big bang really was at the beginning of everything; but that's not in itself a reason to reject or accept it. Science is usually a bit provisional anyway.

Two s just came to mind for me, when you said that...though they don't have so much to do with,-well... hold on a sec. maybe...
Philosophy:
1. Seamus Heaney's translation to Beowulf
+
2. John Gardner's Grendel.

<-Guess which one is more the nihilist and which one talks more about wyrd.
-Thorn
Had to read them both for senior highschool English,-but boy, they were a fun read. Twisted at times,-but still interesting.

Beowulf is better in the original, though

Jez

But how many people can speak/read real 'un-tolkien'-ized Middle English, though?

Or do you mean then in Grendel? <-Thus perhaps showing the full breadth of how little I may actually know...Yet I post-it anyway.

Hi Thorn

"But how many people can speak/read real 'un-tolkien'-ized Middle English, though?"

In the UK many of us over a 'certain age' (cough) did Chaucer as part of our English lessons. We had to wade through the Middle-English, and read it out in original pronunciation (including all the 'fooks').

I know I'm old enough to remember that, but having met Jez there is a chance she is too young.

There again many people of the northern traditions, especially British Heathens, learn this as part of their development.

Blessings,
Matholwch /|\

Never could get the hang of Chaucer! Did anyone read "Hereward the Wake" and the Anglo-Saxon Chronicles? Click http://www.lincolnshire-web.co.uk/lincolnshire-illustrious/tennyson-brunanburh.htm for the Anglo-Saxon text of "The Battle of Brunnanburh"

alji

Erm, Beowulf is in Old English, not Middle English. A knowledge of Chaucer wouldn't really help.

Me, I read Middle English fluently and Old English, well, less so, though I've been trying to teach myself for about two years. I'm afraid I wouldn't understand Beowulf in the original, though that's not to say I haven't tried.

I have sung parts of Beowulf in the original, and I am currently translating it for myself into singable modern english, keeping the original form of the poetry as far as possible.

In my version, it begins...

--

Beowulf – for singing
--
I have a tale of once upon a time, of long ago and yesterday, of far away and near at hand, of here and now and there and forever.

I have a tale of heroes and legends.

Will you hear my tale?

--

Stories are spoken of Spear Danes of old times
How flourished the folk-kings, how famed were the athelings.

Scyld Scefing was mighty, made servants of warbands,
His foes feared him greatly. A foundling was he.
But waxed great in strength. Many worth-names he gathered
The riders of whale roads brought wealth to his hall.

Then born was Beow, boychild and Scylding
In greatness he grew, this gift of the Spear-god.
Northlands all named him as noble and gracious
A free-handed giver, as great as his father.


Wyrd claimed the Scefing, that great Scylding warrior
No longer he waited. The Wanderer took him.
On sea strand his benchmates all sung out his brave deeds
Heaved him in honour and heaped in his treasures
Treasures so famous, fitting to travel
The longest of whaleroads. Leader of men
He was lost to his people, left them in sorrow.

They piled up his boat high, they placed him within it
With gold and great weapons, gifts greater than price
Gracious as war-gifts, once given in tribute
And high over head, they hoisted his standard.
Then set him on sea-foam, sent him from mead hall
To meet with the Northstar. None knows his grave.

--

© Jez 2004

That's awesome!

What sort of a tune/rhythm is it sung to?

I had to wait until senior year to learn any English-english... california,-tries to go and pretend there was no Europe...
Disclaimer: What follows is sure to be a long list of not 'politically correct' things:
1. I'm a guy
2. I'm a white guy
3. That doesn't make me evil... yet!
4. I don't "oppress" the masses (of women/minorities really in any way, shape, or form... unless asking out for @ cafe is considered an insult... (you never know).
&
5. Um, yeah. So there
I hereby blame not all white-men in general,-but the actual rich-and-older white men who are the ones really in charge of big important stuff *supposedly*... If I ever do get rich I may have to get back to you on that one... *s @ self*

Look,- I'm a "corrupted youth of America" <- Control freaks beware!
Always wanted to say that... anyway; what was it we were talking about before? Oh, yeah-actual old English, right?

*Said W/* "Ooh."

Post Scriptum :
[Mysterious & enigmatic stranger]: "Boy am I glad that I do not live in Berkely or Oakland. I'd so be as good as dead." *squashes a fly*
[PETA]: *Faints*
--- Like you were saying, *screws up voice to ound narrator-like* : "Nihil Ex nihilo." ---

<-- Is that it?

<>

I don't know about California denying the existence of Europe - I live in California and I take AP European History in school - I'm up to my ears in Europe at least three days a week!

It's astonishing, though, how few people my age have any knowledge of the English-speaking world outside their little bubble. I'm my high school's resident Anglophile, more or less, because I know what the BBC is and I don't laugh at the way English documentary narrators say "Renaissance". It's kind of silly, I suppose.

*notices typo* Stupid keyboard! I meant 'sound'.

<-- Oh, well mine was a "Homeboy" style public school system... *Does not need bother go into that... <-- Politically incorrect (Aha! Thus maybe a paradox?!)... I know,-I know... p.c. people *tell Thorn they think he is going to h*ll.* <- Now, tell me you all could at least see that one coming...