h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Entry: A Brief Description of the Government of Ancient Sparta - A3986355
Author: laconian - U1477064

Submitting this after being encouraged by Elentari. I'm not entirely happy with it, but I want to know what you think .

Good stuff!

But I think it needs a concluding paragraph, perhaps summarising what we should have learnt from reading the article.

Some small points:

You give the impression that Sparti originally gained a huge fertile plain with a vast population by conquering the Messenians. But Sparta itself was in the middle of a fertile plain, and it is a bigger one than the Messenian plain.

The Pelopopnnese is indeed the south, but Athens is not to the North of it, but to the East.

It might be worth mentioning that all city-states in Greece, including Athens, kepts slaves. The helots were probably no worse off than any other slaves of the time.

G

Seems like a good entry on first scanning through it. Haven't got time to read it properly at the mo - I'll post properly when I have.

- Casper.

Really good stuff!

Cheers!

SAUSAGE

Told you it was good, laconian!

You might know: what's the difference between a Laconian and a Lakedaimonian?

The ancient Greek city of Sparta has taken on the mantle of a legend. It was renowned for its apparently invincible hoplite warriors. History books classify Spartan society as "brutal", "culturally, economically and politically stagnant", and so on. The problem is, Greek history is most commonly supplied to us from the other great city-state of Greece, Athens: Sparta's traditional enemy. The two were complete opposites, and one of the best examples of this was in their concepts of the individual's relationship to the state. The rivalry, then, between Sparta and Athens, which would erupt into the Peloponnesian War, was also an ideological and cultural one.

"It's population" -> "Its population"

"in 725" -> "in 725 BC"

"But the conquered" -> "However, the conquered"

did not give up without a fight. They obtained an alliance with the city-state of Argos, and revolted in 640 BC. And not only did the Messenians come close to victory they also came close to razing the city of Sparta itself to the ground.

This was what transformed Sparta into what it is know as today. Almost defeated, controlling the territory of a subject population that outnumbered their population ten to one, they were in a dangerous position. So the Spartans took up a new political system as dramatically revolutionary as Athenian democracy in the north.

Reformation

"They lived the life of the medieval peasant" -> I would suggest saying "They lived a similar life to that of later medieval peasants"

"There's no question" -> "There is no question"

"But this wasn't the only change" -> "This wasn't..."

"The marriage ceremony had an unusual ritual involved:"

->

"The marriage ceremony involved an unusual ritual"

"compulsory to to serve in the military" -> delete one "to".

"Most of the trade and commerce carried out in Sparta were performed by the perioeci." - technically, I think it all was, at least in theory. Spartans weren't allowed a trade.

"At the top of the hierachal government was the monarchy - a dual one." You need to explain why there was a dual monarchy. As I recall, the Spartan myth was that the founders of the two monarchical houses (the Agiads and the Eurypontids) were twin brothers. Their mother knew that the older one would be made King, but she wanted them both to be King, so she said that she didn't know which was older. The Spartans agreed to make them both kings, but they wathced her and saw that she treated one better than the other (I think going to him first if he was crying, etc) and they reasoned that this must be the elder twin, so his house was considered more senior than the other. I think that was the Eurypontids, but you'd have to check. Of course, having two kings led to problems, especially as the two houses traditionally hated each other. Also, it may be worth mentioning that the crown did not necessarily pass on to the king's eldest son, but to the eldest male relative born during his reign (or something like that).

"Below the monarchy was a council which was composed of the two kings plus twenty-eight nobles, all of whom were over sixty; that is, retired from the military." This was called the Gerousia.


"Above them all, however, was a small group of five men known as the ephorate ." It seems odd to mention this last, why not first? You also need to delete the space before the full stop.

"Spartan government was the ephorate"

->

"The ephorate was the Spartan government" (Btw, wasn't it calle the epora? Why do you keep calling it the ephorate? )

"southern part of Greece (called the Peloponnesus)" -> "...(called the Peloponnese)".

"Their power eclipsed that of even their powerful neighbour in the north, Athens," Athens wasn't really all that powerful at this time, you know. Their rise came after the Persian War.

"army had 'many people, but few men among them' at the Battle of Marathon." - who said that? You should attribute it.

"After the unconditional surrender of Athens at the end of the Peloponnesian War," I would use a footnote to explain what this was. Actually, didn't you mention it earlier? Use the footnote there, if so.

"Age of Pericles closed" - I put an entry in PR today about Pericles, so if that gets edited before this, you could link to it. If not, ask at editorial feedback and they'll add it in.

I really like this entry, and there's no question it should be picked. One more thing though, it seems to me to be more of a general entry on Sparta than focusing entirely on the Government. Why not call it "Ancient Sparta" or something?

Oops, that first paragraph isn't meant to be there, sorry.

I'm pretty sure they're the same thing, Gnomon.

I take back what I said about the fertile plain of Messena. I got a more detailed map of the Peloponnese in the post yesterday, and it shows that while the Spartan plain is big, it is higher in altitude than the Messenian one, so the region would not be as productive.

I'm really looking forward to see all these places when I go on my "summer" holidays in about 12 weeks time.

Greece *again* Gnomon?

----

I was just wondering if there are any famous Spartan rulers that would be worth a mention? Leonidas perhaps?

Cheerio.

HELL

Thanks for all the comments . I'm in a bit of a hurry right now but if all goes to plan I'll revise the entry over the weekend.

I'd also suggest shortening the title; by its nature, a guide entry isn't going to be a book on a subject

Try: 'The Government of Ancient Sparta'

Snappy, concise, quicker to type

I've changed the title to just 'Ancient Sparta'. It started off as a more specialised entry on its government, but now it is more general and so this title is better. I've added a lot of stuff that has been suggested (especially explaining the dual monarchy).

I can't actually find who said 'many people, but few men among them'. It is a quote used in a section on Thermopylae in a book of mine. I could still leave it in, though? It is a nice quote, after all.

I'll start the section on famous kings when I can. I have a fair bit of school work to do but if I'm quick enough it could be today.

Great explanation of the dual monarchy - you managed to find lots more than I could remember.

It took me a while . My book on the Spartans said remarkably little on the subject. From what I could find out the ephors were collectively known as the ephorate, so I have left it. However, most of the stuff about the ephorate comes from web pages which might not be very reliable, so if you're sure it's the epora I'll change it. Once again, my book refers to them as 'the ephors' throughout. Very helpful .

I'm not sure, so I'd leave it.

I've started the list of famous Spartans. If there are any others you think should be there, then I would gladly put them in. I'm considering a fairly detailed biography of Gorgo, the wife of Leonidas - there are few prominent women in Spartan history, but she was so prominent I think she should be included.

To me this loooks like its still a work in progress

Have noticed that there are subheaders without any info under them and maybe one of the sections could do with a little more breaking up with headers or maybe a subheader.

Ah yes, Gorgo. I remember learning that she saw the ambassador of the Asia Minor Greeks offering her father, the Spartan king a bribe for him to lead the Spartans to help their Greek cousins on the Asia Minor coast, but she told her father that this stranger would corrupt him. She was about 8 at the time. Good story.