h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

This Entry about Spartans is still to unbalanced, to euforic to me.

I once wrote about it in my Journal after seeïng a BBC program about it. It's rational and a very emotional posting.

Hope it will make sense here.

Greetings from The Netherlands.

Quote;

I just looked at a program tonight that was broadcasted by the BBC-2 (not their own production) that was called; "Spartans at the gates of fire".
It was about the war of the Spartans (a city-state in ancient Greece) and the great Persian army in 480 before Christ, at Thermopylay (in northern Greece). The Persians in those days were a superpower and the number of Spartans were very small compared to them.

It struck me from the beginning that the way the Spartans were described was glorifying them; the tone of admiration as well as the specific ingredients of what seemed to be Spartanic culture at 480 bc.

Spartans had immersed their lifes, their culture, their "éverything" in service of fighting and winning ány defensive war.(I believe they didn't have real offensive aspirations. Was also impossible)

They saw themselves clearly as a superior race and chosen by god to win any war.
Because of this "mission" they enslaved other Greeks to make their own economy work, because all Spartan men served from childhood the army.

Boys were at the age of 7 separated from their parents and totally immersed to the culture of fighting. When they became about fourteen they were supposed to be "unstable" and were supervised 24 hours a day until about eighteen! Five years in a row being supervised, day and night! (to mention something).

Women were "needed" just as "brooders".

In the first ten years of marriage, a Spartan warrior was nót supposed to actually séé his wife in daylight but only at night, so he'd fully "use her as a sexmachine".
(All quotes are just by head)

Giving birth to a boy was "better" then to a girl.

Whenever a war was needed you were supposed to come back ór as a winner or dead. Nothing else.

Everybody in the Spartan community was keeping an eye at his neighbours.



Whatever you might think of; it áll was shaped to serve war. Emotions, marriage, childhood, families, race, believes, morals, sexuality, aspirations, just name ánything.
It áll had the serve war and in principle just for their ówn small Spartan state.

Their whole exístence was to fight and win any defensive war. (they didn't dare to go that far from their own state in the North of Greece, because they had enslaved many other Greeks and these might rebel when the Spartans were outside their territory.)

It all was described in this T.V. production with a tone of great admiration and gratitude.
Yes, it all was described with a tone of thankfulness.

For - as the story goes - Spartans appeared to have been able to obstruct the Persian attack for three days and that gave the rest of Greece enough confidence to stike back efectively "and save our civilisation".



Just at the very, véry end it is said with another voice and tone,
that "it is rather odd" that the culture of the Spartans saved Greeces specific democratic city-cultures which we know in the West as "democracy".

Yes, that indeed is rather "odd".

To me the Spartan culture was by its own roots a disgusting fascist culture that destroyed all that is specific human, except the body and brain and then ónly to serve as warrior.

"A superior race choosen by god to fight" was the way they saw and behaved themselves.

By accident this repulsive culture made it possible that other Greeks could defend their democratic states, but that had never been the basic aim of the Spartans.
By accident they also defended something good, indirectly.

It was a sickening culture.
Rotten to the core.

Our admiration of ancient "Greece" is much too slavishly.
Our gymnasia are much too easily a breeding place for it.
I did not want my daughter to go to it.
Too alienating from what I see as a good education.
She did learn Greek and Latin at another kind of school.

You make some very good points about the oppressiveness of Spartan society but I hope the entry expresses this as well.

I'm not entirely clear on what you suggest here. This entry is currently in Peer Review so if you want to suggest some changes then make a list of them there and I'll have a look.

I don't believe that in an entry I can describe any culture as "disgusting" or "repulsive". The entry is meant to be an unbiased (and reasonably concise) history of the city, a brief description of its society, and an analysis the effects that this has had today (ie. the Spartan Myth). I hope to do this without gloryfying or villifying the Spartan people.