h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I respect your veiw. I'm an agnostic personnally. It may be just a rumour but don't some satanists eat new born babies?

but don't christians believe in free will? thats why God punished adam and eve...
Just a thoguht tho

Satanists don't eat babies, that's the Christian rumour machine again.

They might eat new-born baby peas and potatoes.

not much meat on a baby
a Coven is 13 hungry mouths to feed (plus any guests)

This is really kind of Looney. Satan, as device, was invented as an intrinsically evil enemy of the creator of the Universe. Whether he actually existed in our culture before Dante, I have no idea. But he is one of the 'bad guys'. Rebelling against the creator of the Universe and desiring the damnation and destruction of the human race is not really something I can cheer about. That there are some Looney-Tunes out there that just want to insist that he isn't evil, he's just misunderstood is fine by me. But they are probably matched by an equal number that believe that "evil" is good and fun and the best way to spend a Saturday night. Maybe both gangs could get together and have a kind of Satan-Lucifer party. A Purgatorio, and a Paradiso party too

> invented as an intrinsically evil enemy of the creator

That might be the case for the later literary version. However, if you go for the earlier version in the judeo-christian myths, the serpent was the one who told the truth while the god lied. The other religious myths around the world which contributed to the more recent versions of Satan each carry their own baggage. Anyone could make up just about any reason they wanted for picking one story god over another - and that god is almost guaranteed to be labelled as bad by the believers of another if monotheistic rather than pantheistic.

Fair point. It's all a bit weird in the whole devil thing. Essentially our idea of a horned, goaty-legged bloke is based on Pan and the Horned God, consort of the Goddess in Paganism. Back to those Christians, they used this focal point of religion to turn paganistic people into Christians by saying they worshipped the devil. No-one wants to be thought of as evil (except maybe the originator of this thread), so they jumped into the baptismal pool either of their own volition or because their kings and leaders did it first.
Basically, the whole thing is a form of control. Either by saying "do this and the Devil will have you" or "actually, I think you lot suck, so I'm going over to the other side". Or, "I really like gloomy black metal so I'll take this as a lifestyle choice and not really understand a f*****g word of it. Woooo Satan!"

Read a book, or several, then make your mind up, Mr Satany-Goth bloke.

Hare Krsna

Pardon my french. Didn't realise I typed that bit of Anglo-Saxon!
Sorry!
(cue pedant pointing out that "f**k"isn't Anglo-Saxon, but something else.)

It's used in context. Or something.

so who do Satanists worship?
is the devil the same as Satan as Lucifer as Beelzebub as Mestopheles (sp.?)?

Depends who you ask. LaVey Satanism is about worship of the self and "do as thout wilt" he only called it Satanism to be controversial.
'Classic' Satanism is the one that's all sacrificing babies and raping virgins but it's debatable whether this has ever happened outside movies and the minds of paranoid fundamentalists.

Satan is not a person/god/whatever it's a metaphor.
Lucifer, the proud Morningstar, was kicked out of heaven for saying "wait a minute, can't I be God for a bit too?" and formed Hell out of the seething chaos which exists outside of the universe (cf. Milton's Paradise Lost and Dante's Inferno).
Beelzebub is the Lord of the Flies.
Can't remember who Mephistopheles is although I think he's the classic bloke with the tail and goatee.

Whatever they are in the Bible/classical literature, as far as the modern world is concerned they are all the same thing, except to people who have done their homework.

I remember reading something about Satan originally not being evil, an angel whose role is that of tempter
Originally he was just seen as doing his job
Beelzebub - Any connection with the Caananite Baal?
Old Nick seems to be just a Christian demonisation of Pan
Its all very confusing

<>

I think that may have been Lucifer.

<>

Can't say for sure, but I've definitely seem something to that effect.

I think Beelzebub means "Lord of the Flies". Charming, I'm sure. Interesting parallel is the Islamic idea of Shaytan - pretty much just a demon, not some super-duper source of all evil. Did anyone hear the thought for the day on RAdio 4 the other morning? Speaker said some interesting stuff about the Devil being real, not just a metaphor. Dontcha just love this new climate of spiritual enlightenment we seem to be entering?

Hare Krsna y'all

F

This is what happens when religious people start believing in supernatural stuff like devils:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4107524.stm

Note that they don't need to worship them to do the damage. Evidence that the self-proclaimed "good" side is really the evil side - because of the way they embrace irrational superstition and reject rational empiricism. Believing in devils is a lot closer to worshipping them than not believing in them at all though.

Something tells me they weren't using the official Rite of Exorcism...

I don't recall seeing crucifixion of the possessed in the official guidelines.

ugh, sometimes I think it would be nice to believe in something religion-wise
othertimes I'm very glad I don't

I think the problem with religion/belief is that too many people use it as an excuse to do some really dodgy things. And, of course, they're the ones that get all the press. Most Christians/Jews/Muslim/etc are happy just to get on with their lives and do what they feel will allow themselves to be a better person but that's boring, terrorist bombings, jihads and suicide cults sell a lot more papers than the vicar inviting people around for afternoon tea.

A lot of people assume that religious types *regardless of their particular faith* are preachy hardcore worshipers... not true. Oliver Cromwell for example was a puritan - a word which instantly conjures images of black clothes, dour expressions and bread and water for dinner - but he was happy with drinking, gambling and hunting *as long as God came first*.

Cake or death?