h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

.. I wasn't aware of the details in the voting system.. sorry for that, I took all statements on democracy for granted.
* makes notes *
on the other issue: this is something entirely different! I stated that -in a truly democratic society- every citizen, no matter what he voted for, in the end is in some way responsible for his gouvernment's actions. If a truly democratic gouvernment would commit crimes then the (truly) democratic process should be able to stop that happening, unless of course the majority of the voters actually supports these crimes.
unfortunately for some, in a democracy the minority has a voice, but no power. Following the same reasoning in a truly democratic society a minority cannot just refuse to accept and follow it's (chosen) gouvernment.
I accept your example partly: ""Your leaders (or ancestors) have done X. We hold you responsible". This is correct if there was a democratic process resulting in "X". Referring to killing is then something that -unfortunately- happens, but not in any truly democratic society.

make that "not in any truly civilised society"??

I think one of the main things you're missing about the way the United States works, Babette, is that the government currently in power is there because (and you can argue that the Diebold voting machines and local county and state officials blocked citizens from the voting booth) they won 51% of the vote. On the surface, this is a deeply divided nation because of the many issues you mentioned. Many Americans *like* the idea of the church and the state being one entity.

And these are people I think should apply for citizenship in Iran or Saudi Arabia. Let's see how much they like a theocratic government when they actually have to live under one.

... excellent point!! however...
<> Now *if* these people would have a majority (in any country) then the minority, disagreeing, cannot have the majority deported. IF the majority prefers a theocratic gouvernment THEN you have no right, no option, to stop them from installing that.

(* let's get this straight: my personal opinion is that church and state are to be completely separated, if I would live in the USA I would disagree with almost everything the gouvernment has decided up to now; I would however follow their rules and decisions or flee the country, get asylum in a free society .. mayflower-like *)

There is, however, some good news- I checked the New York Times election map, and it seems that the Democratic party is making some inroads- Ohio is now a tossup state, and Pennsylvania is leaning. Lil! Arizona's also becoming less strongly elephantine- now's your time to get to work!

good, good, .. now tell me what difference it would make?

We have congressional elections coming up this November, and it is hoped that the populace will vote in enough Democratic candidates for Democrats to take control of one or both houses. At the moment, Republicans control every branch of government, which is why there has been no accountability for the past six years. If Democrats take control of the Senate, for example, you can expect hearings to begin on warrantless wiretapping and the practice of presidential "signings" (where Bush has been signing bills into law then writing memos that say he doesn't care for the law and intends to interpret it as he pleases). You can expect John Bolton to be tossed out of his position a the UN.

What's really interesting is the number of Iraqi veterans who have decided to run for office (as Democrats).

I have a question... why is John Bolton so bad for the UN? You've got to admit, the organization is crying out for reform when they can't do anything about the genocide in Darfur.

The fightin' Dems!

I think Bolton was put in place as ambassador to the UN because Bush hates the UN. It's the equivalent of leaving a flaming bag of dog poo on the doorstep. As to why he's so bad? He's just a crony. And I'm sick and tired of cronies. He's got a reputation for aggressive, even insane behavior when he doesn't get what he wants. He's the complete opposite of what a diplomat should be.

Just watched V for Vendetta this weekend. Highly recommend it.

Babette: I don't advocate coups, bloodless or otherwise. While this democracy is flawed, there are still resources in place to address imbalances. The big deal with getting a Democratic majority in one or both houses of Congress is to address this imbalance. A Democratic majority means that there's a possibility of impeaching the President. With a Republican majority, there's not a whelk's chance in a supernova.

Mo, I'm disliking your 'blame the victim' approach to Louisiana. What money was sent to Louisiana before Katrina to help repair the levees? The last inspection (pre-Katrina) by the federal government, which is responsible for fixing the levees, was cursory at best.

I'm not blaming the victim. Louisanna is not the victim. The people who live there are the victims. When the Katrina story broke there were several articles out about the "millions" of dollars that were sent to Louisanna for the restoration or upgrading of the levees that never made it into that venture. I never read one story rebuting these accusations.

I blame our government in not checking to see that the monies were used as intended. I blame the Louisanna government for whatever part they played in not using the monies in building up the protection of Louisanna.

One story: http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=%5CNation%5Carchive%5C200509%5CNAT20050907a.html

As for why Boltin might not be a good choice for UN ambassador read the following just released story: http://news.google.com/news?q=john+bolton&hl=en&lr=&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&sa=X&oi=news&ct=title

sorry, that last article is at: http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=politicsNews&storyID=2006-09-05T223838Z_01_N05377337_RTRUKOC_0_US-BUSH-BOLTON.xml

ho ho ho ho ... just to get one thing straight .. I wasn't suggesting any sort of revolution, coup or so.. and whatever happened, I certainly would object George Bush ending on the guillotine.

mm.. come to think of that .. it would fit in the general development of your country; being thrown back in the middle ages by this religion and state thing, burning books advocating Darwin's evolution theory

Babette, just out of curiousity, where do you hail from? I'm curious if your neck of the woods has found a way around the pitfalls of democratic elections, without revolution.

If you are fortunate to live in a country which uses the parliamentary system, I'm glad for you. Unfortunately, we have a four year cycle. We elect 'em, then we tolerate (or celebrate) the results until the next time out of the box.

SC

Netherlands, Europe. We haven't had a revolution since we send the army of the Spanish king out in 1648 after 80 years guerilla
We vote for parliament at least every four year, the gouvernment is negotiated by the parliament and usually has a majority in parliament.

I knew the basics of the USA voting system, but I never realised the .. twist .. it gives to the fundamentals of democracy (your posting and #2100). Interesting..

The principles of our government were designed by a group of gentleman farmers who were deeply into John Stuart Mill. While they were decidedly anti-monarchical and opposed to the establishment of a state religion, they also owned slaves and intended that only male landowners should participate in voting.

There is a strong debate going on today between those who want to limit the scope of American law to only and exactly what the Consitution says, and those who consider it to be a living document subject to improvement as the country grows and changes -- the latter view exemplified by constitutional amendments.

.. ahhh... "exactly what the Consitution says" .. in its original form? does that have any implications for slavery?

Just read where 75 top professors and leading scientist have pointed the finger at Bush for having orchestrated the demolition of the two towers so that he could bring about the attacks on Iraq.

There is a book that claims flight 93 was shot down.

Guess there were no heroes, just victims of a gigantic plot. Does Bush plan to take over the world?

I'm sorry but this is all very sick. And I for one will not buy into it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=403840&in_page_id=1879&in_a_source=

this is a bit too far .. I'll not believe it, and if these rumours would be not true then these rumours are sick.

I often wonder if those folks who believe in "strict Constitutional interpretation" and want government limited to what is allowed in the Constitution mean the current document or the original. They invoke the intent of the Founding Fathers so often it makes me think the latter...which would mean African Americans are 3/4 of a human being, women have no rights, and Native Americans do not exist.

* makes notes *