h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

No, I haven't read that book, Lil, but I will be looking into that. I think the latest saint is anything but. Escrival was a big supporter of fascist regimes and encouraged Opus Dei members to interfere in politics on the side of the far-right factions of the Catholic Church. There's nothing saintly about this man whatsoever, no miracles, no good deeds, nothing. This nomination is purely political in a church that's been moving to the right for the last two decades. And, sadly, more than one prominent member of our goverment is in Opus Dei, including Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia and former FBI head Louis Freeh.

Sorry, I meant to say Escrivá de Balaguer.

*notes book title for future reference*

FG, all I can go on is what I know, so I have to say that Opus Dei is, essentially, the Jesuits in modern form. In the middle ages, the Jesuits were the ones who had the popes' ears, handled the money, etc. They had power, influence, and certainly, a great deal of money. Spain, France and Italy were all reorganized by the Jesuits (although arguably, they didn't do such a great job in Italy). Also, with the Jesuits, you rather expected the Spanish Inquisition. Torquemada was the father general of the Jesuits in Spain, and look where that got all the Jews and Muslims in Spain... either they fled or were burnt.

Of course, Opus Dei cannot go about burning Jews and Muslims any longer, but the torch of keeping the faith pure has been handed to them. Which is why JPII is so reluctant to be more ecumenical, or liberal. And his trips to Israel, Cuba, and other predominately NON catholic countries are really just a way for Opus Dei to get in there and convert people.

Financially, they really do control the papal purse strings, as well as those of several other countries.

What interests me the most about this canonization is the slim evidence they have for the required miracles. It used to be that there was a whole lot of information, confirmation and follow up, and now, not so much.

Which leads me to my ultimate point, which is that I really think in our lifetimes the American Catholic church, and possibly others, with break away from Rome. The Opus Dei have worked to create a specifically European Catholicism, and have ignored that the world has moved on. They also have tried very hard to forget the whole question of Liberation Theology.

The next election should be VERY interesting.

(Sorry if I made anyone's eyes glaze there...)

You mean the upcoming American election or who will be chosen as the next Pope?

*sipping tea,imagining the Jesuits carrying the Pope's ears around in a gold casket*

I try not to think of the Pope at all... in fact, the closest I get is thinking of Orson Bean

Sorry. I meant the papal election. Might take a bit for the white smoke. American cardinals do *not* like Opus Dei, and I think one of the earliest candidates will be JPII's secretary (sorry, the name escapes me).

Sorry. I meant the papal election. Might take a bit for the white smoke. American cardinals do *not* like Opus Dei, and I think one of the earliest candidates will be JPII's secretary (sorry, the name escapes me).

Here's what two witnesses to the canonization had to say (this is courtesy of Opus Dei's website, [Broken link removed by Moderator]

((James Nicholson, the United States Ambassador to the Holy See, was in attendance. “I found it very moving and inspiring to see a humble priest proclaimed a saint in the presence of hundreds of thousands of people,” said Mr. Nicholson. He added, “I think the message is clear: when people are living their lives in a manner where they are fulfilling their responsibilities, being good husbands, sons or daughters, they are doing something very important in God’s eyes. You don’t have to be a rock star or an athlete to live your life right.”

Lech Walesa, the Solidarity union leader who helped bring about Poland’s transition to democracy, was also in attendance. “At last we have a saint for the workers,” he said.))

Sorry, I have no clue what those numbers and symbols mean. I deeply disagree with the words "humble" and a "saint for the workers". According to everything I've read, he worked closely with Francisco Franco, a man not known for his interest in the welfare of the working classes.

Didn't some Irish or Scottish prophet predict that there will only be two Popes after JPII? Then Rome is supposed to go up in flames or something. Some folks think it predicts the end of the Church and some think it predicts Armageddon - after which Christ will reign so there won't be a need for a Pope.

Actually, I wish the American church would break from Rome - and have a married priesthood and women priests and an actual social conscience.

* a snort and a fishy smell emanates from behind the sofa *

Hoping you don't moind the lurkin' an' all. That would be an Oirish prophet, to be sure...
http://www.catholic-pages.com/grabbag/malachy.asp

Hmmm...Scottish or Irish prophet? Isn't that a contradiction?

My apologies to the moderator. The website is http://www.opusdei.com

*sips hot but doesn't take part in the conversation about saints because she knows very little about it*

I knew Malachy had predicted the end of the pontificate, but that was interesting. particularly the attachments made to different popes. Made the inquisition seem rather inevitable, and therefore I'm thinking it's a little too clean to be true.

GL and Affy aren't back from looking for you yet, Lil.

Let's see, I think I can disarm the bomb - all I need is a bucket of water.


/* Shuffles off into the laundry and returns with a bucket of water, dipping one hand in it. The water is soaking up into the cardboard, making the cardboard d'Elaphant somewhat bloated. */

I better do this fast before I get too soggy.


/* Takes the package out onto the terrace. */

Can I just drop a thought in without being pushy?
Has anyone ever noticed how often through out history, piety seems based on others' outside perception, rather than the individuals own internal rating system?

/* From the terrace */

Oops!

Well the good news is we've definitely found the bomb.

Well, um....in a binary world view, yes. However, there are nuances in which both the outer and inner "piety" (i.e., the church and the heretic, the Christian and Jew, etc) play a role in defining the other.

[Munchkin, still not here and really not up on saints and things, not the sort of thing the Kirk would tell you about in Sunday school ]