h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

For those of you who didn't see the shoot-out last night, Freddie Ljungberg's penalty was the one that came back out off the crossbar and into the net off van der Sar's back.

Now, I may be dreaming this, but in the past I'm sure I've been told that such a "goal" should be disallowed in a shoot-out, because a penalty ceases to be a penalty once the ball stops going forward. Clearly no rebounds from the keeper back to the striker (who then scores) are allowed in a shoot-out, so why should rebounds from the frame of the goal be allowed?

Obviously it would be a goal during a normal match because play continues after the kick is taken and it would technically be an own goal by the keeper.

I'm sure that had the Dutch lost then this would have been brought up... now it seems like a sad Statto-type thing to talk about, but, well, I'm sure some of you might be able to shed some light on the matter.

As far as I can work out the rules regarding penalties in a shoot-out vary from regular penalities in only one respect. That is that there is no second chance for the attacking player to strike the ball after the goalkeeper has deflected the ball away from their net and back into the field of play.

This therefore would indicate to me that once the attacking player has struck the ball, if it winds up in the back of the net without it leaving the field of play, and the only person to have touched the ball is the keeper, then it is a goal. I think.

Someone raised this question on the radio today - there wasn't a definite answer but, technically, I think you're right: the Ljunberg penalty shouldn't have stood.

Even if it was only doubtful, why didn't Van Der Saar protest?

Oops, simpost. So if it rebounds off the keeper, it is a goal?

Actually, thinking about it, if it was going wide, but somehow the keeper got a hand to it which deflected it in - well, that would be a goal.

Like I say, the fact that Van Der Saar didn't protest at all decides it for me.

There are only 17 laws, yet it all gets so bloody complicated at times

"Actually, thinking about it, if it was going wide, but somehow the keeper got a hand to it which deflected it in - well, that would be a goal."

Yes, I agree - but that's a different situation, as the ball carries on going forward and doesn't come back out again. The law I remember something about was the one that talked about the penalty ceasing to be a penalty once the ball stopped travelling forwards.

Well here's what the law says on the FIFA site:

Procedure:
- the player taking the penalty kicks the ball forward
- he does not play the ball a second time until it has touched another player
- the ball is in play when it is kicked and moves forward

[...] a goal is awarded if, before passing between the goalposts and under the crossbar:

- the ball touches either or both of the goalposts and/or the crossbar, and/or the goalkeeper

My reading of that is that the direction of the travel of the ball is irrelevant after it has hit the posts or the keeper. If it goes into the net it counts.

I think Andy may be thinking of a extra time penalty situation where some sad ref blew time, once the kick had actually been taken, and before the ball crossed the line - though this may be a product of my febrile imagination.

the reason van den sar didn't protest is the same as for all of us... he had no idea what the rule was. and the referee neither perhaps. so keeping concentrated is better than blowing up in a protest you can't win. and it worked.

Wise words

It has to be the best penalty I've ever seen though, bar none.

Pyscorp I take it you mean "Best penalty shootout"?

Well, that too, but I was referring to Ljungberg's pen being the best one I've ever seen.

Well I always reckined that Zidane's golden goal penalty against Portugal in the Euro 2000 semi-final was the best that I had ever seen.

Surely not? How can any penalty be better than Panenka's shoot-out winner against the Germans for the Czechs in 1976?

... actually, I can beat myself on this one. I've seen a penalty taken by Johan Cruyff where he played a one-two with Jesper Olsen (I think) before sidefooting the ball past the bamboozled keeper. Now that's got to be up there with the best of them!

The best penalty ever was taken by John Beresford in a 1998-ish Newcastle-Chelsea cup tie shoot-out.

He hit it like a rocket and it passed about a foot away from the keeper's head (anyone remember who was in goal for Chelsea?) before he'd even seen it.

B