h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Insofar as progress is represented by resource consumption, it's not sustainable is it? All right, fair play, mobile phones are smaller than they used to be. But people (in the developed world) are using more and more water, now to operate dish washers and washing machines, than they used to require. Continued progress would suggest that at some point, however distant, the populations of China and India and Africa will require a fair slice of the pie. And then, there won't be enough to go around. Imagine the oil consumption and consequent pollution if the populations of China and India and Africa all managed to achieve the person:car ratio that exists in Europe and North America. It just ain't sustainable.

Your right, the current consumption levels of a lot of things aren't sustainable. But cutting back on consumption is only a band aid. It's estimated now that we will run out of fossil fuel in the next 80 years. We could cut back and extend that another 20 or 30 years, but to what end, it is still a limited resource. I think by necessity of survival, the very technology that is causing us to use more and more resources will be put to work finding alternative fuel sources and ways to produce cleaner water and enough food to feed us all.

Just a thought.

Yup... and the only logical conclusion is that there are too many people on this small planet. The only way to be truly sustainable is to have a population size which guarantees that we don't use up the resources that future generations will depend upon.

F/b

For any finite resource the population which avoids using it up is 0. better would be to find non-finite resources...solar power while finite it is finite over such a huge period as to be irrelevent (for next few million years at least), and using as much as possible in no way reduces what will be available tomorrow.

Math

I don't think we have time any more though... I believe we've now used so many of the Earth's resources (and are still doing so) that we've gone past the point of no return. The only way to ensure that human beings survive is to slash the birth rates. If we don't, 'nature' will sure do it for us - catastrophically.

That's miserable I know, but I believe it to be true.

F/b

Either that or find more sources of resources that this lonley planet.



Math

Well, some resources are sustainable. I agree fossil fuels aren't, to give the most obvious example. And probably lots of other things too.

But in Wisconsin, where I live, pine and fir trees are grown, cut down and replaced in a sustainable manner. I think we supply Christmas trees (and cardboard and paper products) to quite a bit of the USA.

I think before we start talking about trying to set a global limit on birth rates, we need to take a serious look at the situation. Yes there are 6 billion people in the world, but if you stood us shoulder to shoulder, we would all fit within the state of Florida with room to spare. I think there is more than enough room on this planet for everyone.

As for food, I think there is plenty of that too. I know there are people starving in the world. In some cases entire nations of them. But it isn't for lack of food. American farmers grow so much food that they are paid in pennies. A bushel of potatoes sells for less than a large fry at McDonald's. A few decades ago a lot of people went to great lengths to raise money to send food to the starving people of the world. Ton's of it. And what happened? The reports came back of it rotting on the docks. No, I think the food problem is two fold. One: logistics, getting the food to the people who need it. Two: convincing the governments of the world to let the food be distributed. .

The real question is fuel sources. Can we find an alternative fuel source that is really viable. Solar isn't bad, but there are places in the world that don't get enough annual sun to keep then running. Wind is an interesting option, but my car won't fit under low bridges with the wind mill welded to the roof. I am hearing good things about hydrogen fuel cells. They sound pretty promising.

I like to think that it's not all doom and gloom. Just maybe we'll find a way to survive. Cheers