h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I think that the variety of walks of life than mensans come from and whether or not mensans are geniuses are two points that could not be more unrelated. How the former makes the latter clear is opaque to me.

"and that getting a high mark on an intelligence test is no garauntee that one is intelligent"

hmmm... it's much safer to say that getting a low mark on an intelligence test is no guarantee that one is not intelligent. Getting a high mark is no guarantee that one is anything BUT intelligent in a certain way.

"The bias of IQ tests towards race is a moot point when discussing Mensa."

Hear, hear! Someone write an entry on it, and we'll see ya there!

Let me try to say this another way, then...

The entire point of Mensa is that it is *supposed* to be a club of geniuses. You have to be able to measure that somehow. They selected IQ tests because they are the best measuring tool that we have available. If you have an issue with that, I'm sure they can't wait to try out your new meauring tool, as soon as you complete it. And in order to avoid bias, they have selected a wide array of tests. If you score in the top 2% on any one of those tests at any time (although it MUST be moderated), you qualify for entry at any time of your life. I was accepted at age 25, based on the SAT (the standard college entrance exam) score I got when I was 16.

If Mensa isn't necessarily full of geniuses, then it defeats the point. And I have to say that my experiences have shown that they are definitely above and beyond the norm... the conversational level is above and beyond what I've been able to find in any gathering of similar size. And they aren't pretending. I've always been pretty good at spotting pseudo-intellectuals, and in my limited experience with the group, I have yet to spot a fake. If there are any character flaws that characterize a large portion of Mensa, I would say they are a penchant for bad puns and simple pig-headedness.

If you're looking for Mensa "geniuses" to be of Albert Einstein caliber, then yes, you will be disappointed. Then again, you can attend an assembly of all the people throughout history who have been at that level anytime you want. And I don't think you have to pay to view his grave.

Well, specifically in your entry you say:

"organization for the intellectual elite."
"superior intellect doesn't necessarily guarantee success."
"In an effort to prove that geniuses know better..."

There's a definate arrogance here - "we're better than the rest of you" stuff - and I have to say I find that rather ugly, sorry. Perhaps this is meant to be tongue-in-cheek, and I'm misreading it?

To try to be a little constructive, I personally, imho, would change these to:
"organization /aimed at/ the intellectual elite."
"success in tests doesn't necessarily guarantee success in life."
"In an effort to prove that those with high IQs know better..."

*shrug*

I agree that racial bias in tests is off-topic for the entry - I'm sorry I got caught up in that - but in my defence I was answering a question from the Colonel...

I don't agree that questions of how good IQ tests are at identifying intelligence, and different kinds of intelligence, are off-topic. If the whole point of mensa is to bring together geniuses of all types, it seems that the success or failure of that aim MUST be relevant.

I don't think anyone minds much if all the 140+ IQ people and all the high scoring SAT people and whatnot get together and call themselves smart.. It's the implication that people who can't get such scores *aren't* smart that is disgusting.

I wonder how the average mensan would react if someone develops a test measuring kisesthetic intelligence, or interpersonal intelligence, and the people scoring in the top 2% on those tests (e.g. skateboard champions) start going to the mensa meetings. I'm not making any claims here, I'm just wondering.


Another point:
"There are penniless bum Mensans and wealthy tycoon Mensans; after all, superior intellect doesn't necessarily guarantee success."

I would change "success" to "material success". Otherwise you imply that it's the only kind. Personally, I don't think that success has all that much to do with wealth. The most successful people I know are the ones who have jobs well suited to their dispositions, close relations with their families, good physical health, and active social and intellectual lives. Of course, maybe I'm just a poor man saying, "sour grapes"! I could stand to work on that physical health bit, too, hmmmm.....


By the way, what is the significance of using a word for "table" to refer to a club of intellectuals?


I'm gonna have to find out if there's a local chapter and join up, just to see for myself what it's like.

Well, I have to say that I am now completely turned off of this project. This is just a tongue-in-cheek article, and I feel like I've been on trial over all sorts of issues as a result of it. If this is the kind of reaction I can expect from the rest of the community if it ever became an Edited Guide entry, then I don't want it. I have no problem defending controversial issues that are near and dear to me, but apparently I'm just not as attached to Mensa as all of you are opposed to it.

"It's the implication that people who can't get such scores *aren't* smart that is disgusting." - See, this is the kind of personal issue I'm talking about. If there was any such implication, it was completely accidental. I was dealing with Mensans long before I discovered I qualified, and I often (in a tongue-in-cheek fashion) introduced or described myself as an idiot in their company. They knew better just from conversation, and they never did anything to make me feel like I was somehow unworthy of their company. In fact, they encouraged me to take the test, because they were confident I would qualify. Any haughty attitude you may have associated with Mensa, in my experience, has no basis in reality.

I'm not going to try to defend them any longer. Obviously, an article on the group is going to have to address all of these concerns. I wanted to write a light-hearted article about them. The article you guys want is simply not the one I want to write. If Caroo wants to write the official entry on this subject, I'm sure she is better qualified to handle all your objections than I am.

> "Perhaps this is meant to be tongue-in-cheek, and I'm misreading it?"

That would be a yes then. Chalk one up for my low EQ score...

The issue of how to deal with researchers who want to write comparatively lightweight entries is possibly one that should be dealt with in the editorial feedback place - clearly what you've got is preferable to there being no entry on Mensa in the guide - and there's certainly no issue with it being badly written. It's just a bit... well... lightweight

If it's ok with you, I'd like to bring this up on the PR thread....

I've just been reading up on my ancient history, and *wow*, was this the prelude to the Infamous Intelligence Thread or what?! I'd been on board for about two weeks when this happened, so I won't attempt to account for anything I said here.

If nothing else, it taught us all that the subject of intelligence cannot be discussed in any reasonable way in this community. Which is, incidentally, the reason I erected an SEP field around that Intelligence thread in PR when it first showed up.

And if this wasn't enough, try digging through the backlog in Ask H2G2 for a forum called something like "What do men look for in women?" Someone whined about how men are intimidated by intelligent women, baited and trolled anyone who would speak otherwise, and earned a prestigious Mike Tyson Award For People Who Could Best Improve The Condition of Mankind Through Sterility, Isolation, and/or Suicide.

But I'm not still bitter.

I'm still hopeful that the subject can be tackled...!

To dream, the impossible dream...

"Someone whined about how men are intimidated by intelligent women,..."

Are you serious? I once visited that thread, and dropped the fairly pointless remark that what I look for is a cross between Virginia Woolf and Marilyn Chambers, by which I meant to say the qualities of a powerful intelligence and sexual uninhibitedness. I was accused of having dirty librarian fantasies, and would I like it if she wore a school-girl uniform and sucked on a lollipop, too? (To which I said, sure, why not?)

It occurs to me to say something sexist at this point, even though I'm female...

Men aren't intimidated by intelligent women; men are intimidated by women who think they're right all the time.

I'm *irritated* by women who think they're right all the time. Or men.

I'm intimidated by women who think they're right all the time and who weild weapons of deadly force!



I wonder if whoever attacked me in that thread has even *read* any Virginia Woolf... (Or seen any Marilyn Chambers! )

At least you were able to laugh off their comments, because you were just making a joke yourself. When I started describing my current relationship, and the b*****s started in on their act, well, it was too personal to let stand.

I think they were just mad because we didn't describe *them*.

"What I really want is a middle-aged, embittered British woman who spends most of her time online whining about the failings of men... "

Yeah. Like it's the fault of all the men in the world. It couldn't be *them.*

Hello:

I am a member of MensaSpain, and I have supervised some people when doing their test to enter Mensa.

The tests in MensaSpain are two. None of them has characters or numbers on them. It has been intended so that no discrimination could happen.

Theorically, even a non-alfabetized person could do it.

Of course, I must point that people with a carreer, with some high-school education, and with a proper social ambient will always pass more easily these tests.

It seems that afro-american people didn't have the proper social ambient and education until recently (they even hadn't the right to have it).

Other racial groups have similar problems. (Outsiding, immigration, different cultures...) But in Mensa when we surely can't do much about it (at least in Spain).

Goodbye.

P.D.:One of the tests has very little time (really against the clock), and the other one leaves one hour to finish it. You enter in Mensa only by passing one of the test. Moreover, the amount of errors permitted is high in both tests. So, you see, we can't make it easier.

You seem to know a lot about Mensa. I believe that Colonel Sellers 'has left the building' and this article will be abandoned; are you interested in taking it on and finishing it? It could use a few more specific facts.