h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

This may get flamed unthinkingly, but it is a pedantic point I wish to make that should be taken into account.

The word 'discrimination' in most of these conversations has been taken to imply unstated assumptions.

Discrimination without this baggage is natural and useful - the human brain is a great categorizer, and often the ability to discriminate (that is spot differences between things) is a positive worthwhile attribute. The person who doesn't discriminate is not functioning properly.

The 'baggage' is using the discrimination as a basis for decisions where it isn't a relevant and justifiable criterion.

For a job interview the advertisement may well say 'we don't discriminate on the basis of gender, age, race, religion etc.' - it would be ridiculous for an employer to add 'ability, qualifications and experience' to the list.

There are attributes it is reasonable (or even essential) to discriminate by in order to make decisions.

Relevant discrimination is good. The argument should be 'what are all the attributes, that can be discriminated between, that are relevant and justifiable to the decision being made?' - what needs to be considered to make a fair decision?

Pimms

Well said

Teasswill - I'm glad someone read it (and liked it ).
Pimms

Could not agree more! If one were looking to hire a community race relations coordinator I would think discriminating on the basis of creed and political beliefs would be a natural as one would not really want to hire a white supremacist or member of the Nation of Islam group in the US.

Fari point, but I think this topic is meant to explore where discrimination is taken to mean people being excluded based on irrelevent things, like race, colour, gender, etc...

Who decides what is relevant? Is it reasonable to claim unfair discrimination simply because you have been excluded?

In many jobs there is an element of teamwork needed that could be used (unfairly?) to discriminate in favour of those who are considered more likely to fit into the team, which could easily be used to exclude on many aspects which would identify one as a member of an out-group, but are irrelevant to ability to perform the specific job.

Are not people often excluded in job interviews on the basis that other interviewees are considered more likely to "fit in"?

I don't know the answers

Pimms

Forgive my slow reaction time - worsened by a brief holiday.

I spent 25 years as a Personnel Manger and have happily retired due to ill-health : put quite simply, the job sent me barmy. The word "Discrimination" is rapidly travelling in the same direction as the word "Gay".

Good Communication used to be classically defined as "The transfer of meaningful information in such a way that it evokes a discriminating response". And no doubt the politically-correct will have jumped on that elegant and evocative definition and buried it. But I thought much of what you said made good sense.

Fairness is one of those golden goals that no-one could ever say they were opposed to if they were to be considered in their right mind. But is it even reasonable to expect employers to behave fairly, when Life itself is quite blatantly unfair - and always will be (unless free will is totally abolished and we all behave totally predictably: unlike human beings)?

If people were entirely free to live with, interact with, employ, and mate with those people that they liked best, wouldn't that be freedom personified? Wouldn't that be the ideal? In theory, it doesn't seem at all bad. But reality bites! And Reality is that human beings are more strongly motivated by hatred and envy and fear than they are by love and desire. And that's where Unfair Discrimination, aka Prejudice rears its ugly face.

Interesting things, people. I'm glad to get away from them!

"LIFE IS SIMPLE ITS PEOPLE THAT MAKE IT COMPLICATED"

BIGERIC: I agree with you life is unfair but is that really any justification for us not to aspire to the ideal of fairness in the way we deal with each other?

LETTUCE: Unless the team is doing a very mundane and simple task there is no advantage to having all its members from an *in group* you need a wide variety of people to give the team a broader perspective and experience of life. As a coach I know that a team that has no mix of people is less effective than one that does not.

I offer my sympathies to you, Blickybadger. It is quite clear from what you have written and your apparent difficulty to comprehend what has been written by me that you have quite severe problems of your own, which are well out of my capacity to help you with. So I wish you Good Luck, every happiness and success for the future in whatever way you define that to be.

And with a flick of his towel over his shoulder, BigE waddles off into the sunset.

BIGERIC, in a previos post you wrote.

"But is it even reasonable to expect employers to behave fairly, when Life itself is quite blatantly unfair - and always will be..."

I personally think is is reasonable and what is more necessary for employers to behave fairly and if they can not of their own accord they should be forced to by legislation. Infact that is the law.


"Fairness is one of those golden goals that no-one could ever say they were opposed to if they were to be considered in their right mind."

I do not say that I am in favour of fairness so that to others I appear to be in my right mind. It is something I believe in and work towards in my proffessional and social life.

"If people were entirely free to live with, interact with, employ, and mate with those people that they liked best, wouldn't that be freedom personified?"

I dont know where you live BigEric but, in England the law says that people are allowed to live, mate and interact with anyone they like as long as the people involved are consenting adults. Sadly some narrow minded people do choose to avoid or even exclude those they term as "not our sort".


"Reality is that human beings are more strongly motivated by hatred and envy and fear than they are by love and desire."

My sympathies to you BigEric if your long life has not bought you into contact with more people who are motivated by love. Maybe you should get out more. There are ways of overcoming hatred, envy and fear in others but it does take a lot of patience and love.

"Interesting things, people. I'm glad to get away from them!"

I hope you have better luck with people in your future.