h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

>What a woofer! Before the US allowed the hospitals to be attacked and looted they were acknowledged to be the finest in the world - there are, I believe around eighteen world class hospitals in Bagdhad alone.<

Yes Iraq was the most educated modern country in the middle east. However that was long ago before saddam hussien led the iraq nation in a 6 year war against Iran, and a 3 week war with most of the world. {not to mention stealing billions over the years for his personal use and even more billions to buy weapons and bribe his hench men.} !2 years of UN sanctions did not help either.

What ever anyone says about US motives surely no one can say Iraq is worse off without this man and his family.

>What a woofer! Before the US allowed the hospitals to be attacked and looted they were acknowledged to be the finest in the world - there are, I believe around eighteen world class hospitals in Bagdhad alone.<

Yes Iraq was the most educated modern country in the middle east. However that was long ago before saddam hussien led the iraq nation in a 6 year war against Iran, and a 3 week war with most of the world. {not to mention stealing billions over the years for his personal use and even more billions to buy weapons and bribe his hench men.} !2 years of UN sanctions did not help either.

What ever anyone says about US motives surely no one can say Iraq is worse off without this man and his family.

>What a woofer! Before the US allowed the hospitals to be attacked and looted they were acknowledged to be the finest in the world - there are, I believe around eighteen world class hospitals in Bagdhad alone.<

Yes Iraq was the most educated modern country in the middle east. However that was long ago before saddam hussien led the iraq nation in a 6 year war against Iran, and a 3 week war with most of the world. {not to mention stealing billions over the years for his personal use and even more billions to buy weapons and bribe his hench men.} !2 years of UN sanctions did not help either.

What ever anyone says about US motives surely no one can say Iraq is worse off without this man and his family.

Starbirth's words of wisdom part 1.


1] "The medications have a tendency to make things a little hazy sometimes."

2] "I pray you never have your life turned upside down, that doing just the normal everything days you use to take for granted are now torture sessions."

3] "I asure you my pain/medication has no bearing on my sometimes incoherent discourse. That is a natural ability I possess "

So, firstly you have no hesitation about using your medication to attempt to excuse your incompetence. How contemptible of you to cynically exploit your condition in such a way.

Then secondly you further exploit your condition to engender sympathy.

Then thirdly you confess that it has no bearing at all and you're simply an idiot.

Interesting to know that you're not prepared to let reason get in the way of your agenda.

Starbirth, once again I have NEVER questioned your right to be here. I HAVE questioned your competence and I feel vindicated in doing so now that you have confirmed that your stupidity in not owing to your condition.

I simply said that, considering you come across in such an incompetent manner, you're doing yourself and your opinions a disfavour by posting here. I stand by this and (apparently) it DOES NOT relate to your condition, so I have no compunction about saying it.

Outmage, I remember hearing the same about schools. It could have been pre gulf war one though.

********

Starbirth's actual responce - "Even though you are a sanctimonious twit who obviously needs to do a lot of growing up" - it's on the same page, did you think no one would notice?

Empty, are you wishing you took the blue pill?

'Unfortunatly no one can be told what starbirth is like. You have to see it for yourself'

Yes, Starbirth, himself, is a sanctimonious twit. What a betrayal of all other disabled people that he has no hesitation about cynically exploiting his condition to engender sympathy, then admits that his incompetence has nothing to do with his condition.

How he expects to retain any credibility, I can't imagine.

Empty, I cannot begin to say how much your post has offended me, and how much of a fool you look. I'd probably get Yikesed.

Hmm... where do I begin.

First of all, let's put this childishness aside and get back to the topic at hand, which was that Empty posted a bunch of 'facts' about the war on Iraq.

Here's a summary of his first post:

• The war on Iraq was based upon lies, exaggerations, and half-truths, and would never have happened if 9/11 hadn't happened.
• The supporters of Bush and the war aren't upset that they've been lied to, because they believe that the end justifies the means.

I agree that all that is true.

I don't agree that Bush caused 9/11 so that he could attack Iraq. There's no evidence to support it. And it won't make it any more true to keep saying it, either!

Review of Empty's second post:

• First of all, we do not deify our leaders. The patriarchal society died with John F. Kennedy. Our faith in the system really started falling apart when Nixon was impeached, and now we subject every public figure to microscopic examination. As soon as Clinton got into office, they hired Kenneth Starr to dig up some dirt. It took him six years. Deify? Heh... don't make me laugh. We haven't had a president we could respect since Carter.

• Empty posted: 'He claims to be a dedicated christian and condemns abortion while, at the same time, delighting in enacting capital punishment. Therby showing that Bush has very little regard for human life.' Empty, obviously you don't know Christians very well. Ever hear of the Crusades?

This particular attitude - the anti-abortion, pro capitalist punishment stance - is the Texas Republican platform. Christianity comes in all shapes and sizes, and being a Christian or not has nothing to do with respect for human life. Are you insulting Buddhists? Or Hindus? Or the ancestor worship of the Japanese?

It's ridiculous to me for somebody to say that a culture that raises children to believe they'll go to heaven if they die while killing an unbeliever is *less* likely to have caused 9/11 than an American Christian. Let's use a little logic, here.

• 'He is not above making a mockery of the democratic system and stealing his way into the White House. Thereby showing that Bush has very little regard for legal conventions.'

I'll say this again. Bush DID NOT steal his way into the White House. The electoral college was responsible for his winning the election. Do a litlte research.

Reasons for invading Iraq?

Empty's reasons: US Empire Building, Oil, Stratospheric Military Expenditure and The Re-election Of George W Bush.

I think that these reasons are part of it - but not the whole truth. The truth is always a lot more complicated - you make it sound so simple, Empty, but life is never simple.

Re-election had a lot to do with it, but mainly the U.S. government is going through a little selfish phase right now. It's all about me, me, me. They see the UN filled with people who don't give a crap about the U.S. and its welfare, and don't understand that this has a lot to do with the U.S.'s behavior in the past. So they're busy wrapping their arms around everything that they can safely protect, and hoarding it, like a dragon with its gold. The people in government don't understand that the time has come to join the world, rather than run it. Trust is the problem right now.

• Daily it's looking more and more like Dubya's stupidity is a facade. The world in in the presence of pure evil.

Yup, that's pure evil, all right!

Don't be silly. I've seen evil, and that's not it. Incompetence, sure. Blind obtuseness? Yeah, some of that too. But calling Bush 'evil' is like calling the cook that forgets to leave the mayo off your burger 'evil.' I think the word's getting overused.

And finally, Empty, your hands are not clean when it comes to typos. Let's talk about the real issues at hand. This is not English class. We aren't being graded on whether we can spell, or use proper English. We're here to talk about issues that concern us.

If all you can say about Starbirth's post is that it's filled with typos, what's your point? That's not a proper rebuttal, and now you look petty. He/she (sorry, , I don't know whether you're male or female) is willing to engage you in a civilized argument. The least you can do is respond in a similar fashion.

I didn't get the impression that birth was trying to engender sympathy. I do feel sympathy - but mostly all I feel is respect.

>Yes, Starbirth, himself, is a sanctimonious twit. What a betrayal of all other disabled people that he has no hesitation about cynically exploiting his condition to engender sympathy, then admits that his incompetence has nothing to do with his condition.

How he expects to retain any credibility, I can't imagine.<

Empty such a sad little man you must be. What in the hell are are you talking about? Engendering sympathy? A year and a half after my Injury? In a digital domain for a non de guerre I employ? From other researchers who use pseudonyms?
This does what for me?

Better even because I poke fun at myself in a humorous way my credibility suffers? It is obvious that you take great pleasure in anothers misfortune. Is this only a virtual behavior our are you just as beligerent in the real world? Are you the type to torture small animals? Or maybe Bully those smaller than you?

It always amazes me how the illusion of being anonymous bolsters the agressive nature of those that would otherwise lack the courage and conviction to confront another face to face. A false sense of bravado to compansate for the inadequacys that rule their world.

Hear, hear!

"And it won't make it any more true to keep saying it, either!" - I read empty's statement. The made it a suggestion and a following post stated that we will probably never know if it's true.

Lentilla, it doesn't matter how you or starbirth choose to interpret the postings. They are whet they are.

*******

"Empty, obviously you don't know Christians very well. Ever hear of the Crusades?" - how does that relate to the *fact* that capitol punishment is un-christian.

*******

Careful saying sad little mad starbirth. If you add the word creepy then you could have moderation unheld against you. In the joke that passes for moderation and feedback in this place.

Then again your protector Lentilla is here...

Starbirth - Even though you are a sanctimonious twit who obviously needs to do a lot of growing up

Starbirth - It always amazes me how the illusion of being anonymous bolsters the agressive nature of those that would otherwise lack the courage and conviction to confront another face to face. A false sense of bravado to compansate for the inadequacys that rule their world.

Lentilla - Hear, hear!

well it’s nothing new for those two, I guess.

> "And it won't make it any more true to keep saying it, either!" - I read empty's statement. The made it a suggestion and a following post stated that we will probably never know if it's true.

"There is no doubt that Bush is more than capable of sacrificing a few thousand lives for his own ends. Whether he and his administration engineered September 11th may never be known but certainly the incentives were there. So is the capability."

Empty then goes on to say that 'Bush's stupidity looks more and more like a facade' as if the previous statement was proof that Bush wasn't a fool, but had planned this from the beginning. Of all the conclusions to draw from the available facts, that one makes the least sense.

> how does that relate to the *fact* that capitol punishment is un-christian.

It depends upon which definition of Christianity you use. The Spanish Inquisition obviously thought torture was Christian. The kings of England thought capital punishment was Christian. Even early devout conservative Christians from America believed that they were doing the right thing by hanging those criminals. What I was objecting to was the attachment of a specific set of morals to Christians. Christians believe all sorts of things, some of them good, some bad. Some Christians believe that if you aren't Christian, you're going to hell. This isn't a very Christian attitude, in my opinion!

Apparition, I'm not birth's protector, any more than I am your protector. What I am is an adult human being, who believes that we can have a peaceful, intelligent conversation, without resorting to picking on each other for making typos when we find we don't have anything else to argue about. I know you are, too - although you occasionally have your immature moments.

> "It always amazes me how the illusion of being anonymous bolsters the agressive nature of those that would otherwise lack the courage and conviction to confront another face to face."

I agree. Apparition, would you have the courage to be so rude to me, face to face? Could you look me in the eye and say the things you have said to me on this thread? Join the human race. Pretend like other people have feelings too, even though you might not agree with them. Or go over to the insult thread when you feel like being mean - at least people expect it over there!

"The war on Iraq was based upon lies, exaggerations, and half-truths, and would never have happened if 9/11 hadn't happened.
• The supporters of Bush and the war aren't upset that they've been lied to, because they believe that the end justifies the means.

I agree that all that is true.

I don't agree that Bush caused 9/11 so that he could attack Iraq. There's no evidence to support it. And it won't make it any more true to keep saying it, either!"

Lentilla, I'm disappointed that you could misinterpret the things I said so badly.

Firstly I did not say, or even imply, that the war would never have happened if 9/11 hadn't happened.

Secondly I never said that the supporters of Bush and the war aren't upset that they've been lied to.

So I'm afraid that that's zero out of two. I've looked back over the conversation and I can't see where ANYBODY actually said either of those things.

Lastly I have NEVER said it's true that Bush caused 9/11. I said that it's a possibility worth considering, but we will probably never know either way. I'm not insisting that it's true and neither is anyone else.

You ARE having a bad day!

"Empty, I cannot begin to say how much your post has offended me, and how much of a fool you look. I'd probably get Yikesed."

Why such an extreme reaction, Lentilla? Everything I said is perfectly reasonable.

Starbirth cited his pain medication as an excuse for his gaffs.

I said (and I paraphrase) 'If it's causing such an injustice to your natural genius, why do you even bother?'

Starbirth became angry and claimed that I had questioned his right to post here.

I pointed out that I had done nothing of the kind and merely asked him why he would want to continue to post when the medication was causing such a misrepresentation of his natural self.

Starbirth became paranoid and refused to reply to me. Instead he told Adelle "I asure you my pain/medication has no bearing on my sometimes incoherent discourse. That is a natural ability I possess" Thereby negating all that he had said on the subject.

This, surely is a cynical betrayal of all those people who really are hampered by a disability.

It's extreme arrogance on Starbirth's part.

"First of all, we do not deify our leaders."

Lentilla, a great many Americans certinly do do exactly that. You personally are a little more cynical than most Americans yet you are still fatally blind to the fact that Bush could be evil. That shows a very real (perhaps subconscious, but no less real) belief that Americans are somehow superior to people of other nationalities and that American presidents have a finite capacity to do wrong. I assure you, in many other Americans this high esteme extends to worship.

"Empty, obviously you don't know Christians very well."

I know christians extremely well and I know christianity even better. Capital punishment is not consistent with christianity. To delight in capital punishment while at the same time condemning abortion is twisting christian belief to the point of hypocrisy. Don't make the mistake of confusing christianity with southern bible-belt American christians. God will, and does, disown such people.


"Bush DID NOT steal his way into the White House. The electoral college was responsible for his winning the election. Do a litlte research."

I've answered this before. Bush ONLY received the endorsement of the electoral college because he won the state of Florida and Bush only won the state of Florida because of illegal vote-rigging chicanery in Florida coupled with a questionable supreme court decision. Bush should not be in the White House. The real surprise is that, after all this time, Americans are still in denial about that.

You still have difficulty ascribing to Americans, the same capacity for evil that you cheerfully acknowledge that others are capable of.

Why do Americans believe themselves to be so superior?

"I didn't get the impression that Starbirth was trying to engender sympathy. I do feel sympathy..."

It worked then, didn't it?