h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Excellent entry - as a European I've seen way too many Hollywood productions portraying the US Army as saints, and the opponents as devils

but I think that you are missing....that most moives show a good side and a bad side and when one is made that is based on some tidbit of history that facts are often changed to make it seem more so or just to save time or money....this is just the way it has always been....it doesn't have to just be american forces shown even though we do have a soft spot for those types of moives....
Life doesn't usualy fit nice and neat into a two hour block of screen time that's still entertaining non-offencive and makes bunches and bunches of money


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Hi Tacsatduck,

"....that most moives show a good side and a bad side and when one is made that is based on some tidbit of history that facts are often changed to make it seem more so or just to save time or money"

I don't think anyone has any objection to limited dramatic license with the facts - Shakespeare did it regularly - if it helps the narrative. But when it's done for propaganda reasons, it's different. Black Hawk Down (which I must confess I haven't seen because it looked dreadful) should have had at least some relation to the facts, or it should not have been presented as a true story. Otherwise, it would just have been a harmless bit of US jingoism.

But meddling with the facts is dangerous, and I simply don't accept that it's done for dramatic reasons, any more than in U-571 (the submarine film, not a guide entry), or in many other films....

Best wishes


Otto

I think they called it one of those "Based on a True Story"...kinda like Braveheart doesn't mean that it actualy came out like the real thing or not....Kinda like those Based on a book movies" which this actualy falls into also.....

I personaly wasn't worried about all the facts while watching it and I didn't really go to the movie theator to see a documentry or to learn my history...I went to be entertained and that was totaly acomplished...as far as the charactors/actors they reminded me of so many friends and I thought that was great...


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But did the film have an effect on your point of view regarding Muslims - or Somalians?

If the US army is consequently pictured as the saints and right-doers, I'm worried that the Americans might actually start to look at reality much in the same way...

but we are nothing but saints and do-gooders so

did it effect my point of view regarding Muslims or Somalians no but it did make me miss the Army and the people I met there......I can see what you are saying though....


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They're far and away the world's richest, most influential, most powerful nation on the planet, but have the American's got an inferiority complex?

There are plenty of examples of how history is re-drawn to paint American involvement in a different light. Can't they stomach the fact that certain historical events didn't include them? They didn't solve enigma in WW2; the Brits did. Robin Hood wasn't a Yank. And don't get me started on "The Patriot".

It's bad enough that you won your independance, but do you have to rubbish every aspect of Britain's history and take its high points for your own? I just wish Hollywood would show some goddamn respect.

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Black Hawk Down did deviate from the book in some places that I thought was kind of odd. The thing that stuck in my head was that Grimes' real name was Stebbins. I didn't understand why that was changed. He didn't make coffee during the battle, but he did do some pretty funny stuff, and he was wounded four times. He sounds like quite a character. He's a legend in the Ranger community now, as is the 'Cook Platoon’, which wasn’t played up as much in the movie as I thought it should be.

I don't know where anyone would get the idea that Robin Hood was a yank. I'm not sure how important it is that he is played by an English actor. The accent may sound funny, but a real Robin Hood would have spoken Old English which would be unintelligible to us. On the other hand, Specialist Stebbins, Specialist Grimes in the movie version, was an American played by a British actor. The horror.

I kind of wish Hollywood would show some respect too. I think they did with Black Hawk Down. Hollywood rarely gets anything right in military movies. They generally have no experience from the military and show characters that aren't anything like real soldiers. They're often over glamorised or pilloried. I think movies like Black Hawk Down and Courage Under Fire (which I still can’t watch without crying) did very well in how it depicted American soldiers.

I agree, I think Hollywood does try to "rewrite" history far too much

I think Black Hawk Down has been badmouthed too much. The film was more about the battle than the political situation, in my opinion. I went to see it at the cinema and wasn't really offended by it. It was a bit mawkish at times, but then it is Hollywood.

The "U571" film, where American's find the Enigma coding machine was a travesty. I know it's only a film, but it was not necessary for the US sailors to find the machine, as far as the films plot was concerned. Through Hollywood, America has a bad habit of disrespecting the nations it fought (belatedly) alongside with in the battle against Fascism. Sadly, some posts of the "We saved your ass in World War II" type from some American researchers seem to point out that this goes beyond Hollywood.

I haven't seen the Patriot, but apparently it paints a ridiculous picture of the British forces in the American Revolutionary War as well as the American's attitude to slavery. Having said that, it is a stereotypical Hollywood film about a long-past piece of history. I'd trust even American's not to take it too seriously

I'm Scottish and have to admit I've never seen Braveheart . What I've heard about it is largely a travesty of history. William Wallace was apparently a huge, bearded giant of a man, not some clean-shaved blue-and-white painted Australian-American. He also never fathered a child by the English Princess. Oh, and apparently, Edward Longshanks would have spoken French.

I'm sure Braveheart is still a great film, but I'm a bit annoyed that many Scots have taken it to their heart as part of our history

Yeah, it was annoying that Kevin Cosner had an American accent in Robin Hood, but then everyone was paying attention to Alan Rickman

Zagreb

I have seen Braveheart, and actually really enjoyed it, apart from the very dodgy biblical parallels. Mel McGibson as Jesus? For those with sense, it's only a film, but for the rest, I'm worried....

I'm english, and worked in Scotland for a couple of years at a kid's activity holiday centre around the turn of the century. I vividly remember a kid asking me if I was English. To which I replied in the affirmative. This delightful child responded "Ah haete the aenglish" because of what the english are supposed to have done in Braveheart, apparently. I also found the SNP posturing around Braveheart absolutely nauseating.

If people want to make mindlessly entertaining films, then fine. But pretending that they're based around "fact" is just dangerous and misleading. And completely unecessary. If the makers of Black Hawk Down wanted to make inanity, then they could just have invented a war and called it fiction. I accept the point that cinema is entertainment, but at the very least it ought not to misinform.

Best line of Robin Hood: Men in Tights

"Why should we follow you?"
"Because unlike some Robin Hoods, I can speak with an English accent".

Costner's Robin Hood was a travesty.
"Gee, it's great to be back in good old eng-land. I'm going to ride to Notting-ham, like, right now...."

Otto

Though I haven't seen the film I thought it was 'amusing' that 'Black Hawk Down' was supposedly US propaganda but required a British director (Ridley Scott) and at least one British actor (Ewan McGregar). A lot has been said that Americans can't fight wars on their won, but it appears they can't make US propaganda on their own as well.

It's not a piece of American propaganda. It's a film about a real situation that happened. It's hollywoodised because that's what the cinema audiences want. It doesn't dwell on the political situation in Somalia nearly long enough to qualify as propoganda even if it did have a hidden agenda.

It's the case with a lot of films that people decide what the films message is and whether they like it long before they watch it. This, I think, was the case with Black Hawk Down.

I'd urge people to go and see it (it is a good film) and seriously, *seriously* ask yourselves, with an open mind, if you are watching a propoganda film or a hollywood film about a battle.

And yes, if they wanted to make a piece of pro-US propoganda, they would not have chosen a British director.

If alot of people "feel" a way about a piece of fiction then it's a good sign that that's what was intended.

Starship troopers had good guys with american accents and I loved that movie, the "bad guys" wern't any real race/religion/nationality that hollywood generally generalises/targets.

rule of thumb: A "good guy" with a non-american accent will usually be someone who 1. declears his/her love of america 2. renounces his/her religion/race/nationality 2. is jewish or israili

(rule of thumb comes from many years of watching hollywood movies, many before I was old enough to question what I was watching)

"rule of thumb: A "good guy" with a non-american accent will usually be someone who 1. declears his/her love of america 2. renounces his/her religion/race/nationality"

What about Dances with Wolves? Platoon? JFK?

Hollywood has made countless films critical of the United States and particularly it's military.

In what film has a character ever renounced their race of religion? I've never seen a film where an arab character says "Dang it! I'm tired of being a muslim arab! I'm going to bleach my skin white, get a nose job and get me down to my nearest baptist church so I can be like one of those Yankee GIs!"

"2. is jewish or israili"

I don't think I've seen a single war film where the good guy is Jewish or Israeli. The closest films I can think of to fit that description is Woody Allen films


"Starship troopers had good guys with american accents and I loved that movie, the "bad guys" wern't any real race/religion/nationality that hollywood generally generalises/targets."

Starship troopers was satirical. It was a film with it's tongue in it's cheek. That aside, it wasn't too different from Black Hawk Down. Both were war films.

>I don't think I've seen a single war film where the good guy is Jewish or Israeli. The closest films I can think of to fit that description is Woody Allen films

Biloxi Blues?

I saw it when I took a pass from Basic Training.

Was the main character in that Jewish? I remember the guy in glasses (not stereotyping then? ) was.

I thought Biloxi Blues was a great film. I caught it late one night on BBC2 or somesuch about 8 or 9 years ago.

They were both supposed to be New York Jews.

I checked it out on the Internet Movie Database. You're right, Matthew Broderick's character is also Jewish.

Thing is, does it qualify as a *war* film? The whole thing was about them training.

In order for me not to be personaly judgemental of you I'll have to assume you miss my point on purpose.

You quoted me saying "rule of thumb", you do know what that means right. If I had meant every single instance of a hollywood film I would have said so.

I'll take your last point first. There is a big, and important, difference between starship troopers and black hawk down. Starship troopers has a completly fictious setting whereas has an anoying smidgon of fact but not enough to be factual.

"2. is jewish or israili" The last american film I saw, my wife rented, was named 'point man' set in israel with evil arab "bad guys". Independance day where the world was saved by a jewish new yorker. There's even a point in the movie where everyone is joining in a jewish praying session. The discrased american says "but I'm not jewish" reply: "nobody's perfect". There are other examples but TV is in my head at the moment.

"Hollywood has made countless films critical of the United States and particularly it's military."

That's not what I was talking about. Leathal weapon 2 (I think) south africans were the "bad guys" except for one who stated how ashamed of her country she was (that's the first one that springs to mind)


"In what film has a character ever renounced their race of religion? I've never seen a film where an arab character says "Dang it! I'm tired of being a muslim arab! I'm going to bleach my skin white, get a nose job and get me down to my nearest baptist church so I can be like one of those Yankee GIs!""

I included race/religon mostly because american movies tend to generalise people of a nation into race/religon.

People have noted before Braveheart and Robin Hood. "good guy" with american accent fighting evil opressors with non american accents. If they didn't bother to fake an accent for the leading character then why do all the "bad guys" have accents (or played by non americans)?

And last but worst. It's the young and impressionable who get sucked in "This delightful child responded "Ah haete the aenglish" because of what the english are supposed to have done in Braveheart, apparently." from post 11.

They even hired someone with an english acrent to be the "bad guy" in the Lion King.