h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I think GargleBlaster is touching on the truth here. It has been Christian practice to take over "pagan" holy places and make them into Christian ones. Many churches are found on sites of temples and so on.

In Muslim countries where a lifelike depiction of the crucifix is seen as culturally unacceptable (no images of God are allowed and Mosques have no "pictures" of any description) Christian missionaries have crosses made of beads. Quite often Christianity has taken a quiet approach to growth when it is in a hostile environment.

Easter, Christmas and Halloween are all Pagan(I refer to the western European version here)celebrations, commandeered by the early Catholic church. It was an effort to "homoginize" the locals into the Christian faith.

Halloween backfired!!!He-he!

NM

Yeah, Halloween went from Samhain, a Celtic celebration, to All Saint's Day, a deeply religious day to Catholics, then came full circle to its pagan roots, with a bit of excessive commercialism thrown in. Just goes to show that there's hope yet for Christmas...

If the original founders set out to create a religion that "the public will accept" then why are there so many elements of it that run exactly the opposite to what people want to hear?

95% of Americans believe in God, according to a recent poll... clearly, the people accept it. Xtianity tells people *exactly* what they want to hear... there's a mysterious dude looking out for you, there's no reason to fear death, because you're immortal, etc.

That statistic is meaningless. Believing in God the Father never saved anyone(except perhaps by assoiation with his son).

"Believing in God the Father never saved anyone" - You're starting to sound like me... am I making a convert out of you?

Ddombrow - are you saying that Abraham, Moses and Elijah weren't saved. Surely they were present at the "Transfiguration." Jesus also refers to Abraham in a sense which could only have him as saved.

"95% of Americans believe in God"........which one? There are several!

Make that read "a supream being", and it may be close to right!

I've always found the animosity Christians have toward Jews as quite ...shall I say...skewered? If all jews believed in Christ as the Messiah, Christians would *be* Jewish! After all, that is what Christ was supposed to be....the fullfillment of Jewish prophecy!

(Just a nugget to contemplate!)

NM

Jewish culture at the time was a theocracy and as such Jesus' role as the 'messiah' was more political in nature. Jesus came to claim his kingship as was his birthright as a descendant of Royal King David.

I personally find the theory that he:

a. was the same person as Joseph of Arimethea.

b. didn't die on the cross but was fed a narcolepsy-inducing drug in the guise of vinegar.

c. settled in France with Mary Magdalene and their children.

d. founded the Merovingian Dynasty,

much more compelling than the rose-from-the-dead, ascended into heaven versions.

Your mileage may differ.

ximenes.

Any one of the above theories(and some not thought of yet) may very well be true. As many years ago as this took place, and with so few unbiased records to go on, there is no way to know, conlusively, what may, or may not be truth.

I feel that this will eventually lead to the downfall of Christianity....at least as we know it. Faith can only last so long, and 2000 years(give or take a few years...depending on who you listen to)is a long time to expect faith, alone, to support the myth.

If the Gospels are true, something needs to happen soon to varify them. If not, expect a great exodus from the Christian faith in the not too distant future.

NM

NM

Many people - including me - accept Christianity, not as an historical club which depends on the truth of a particular incident but as a an approach to life which makes sense. I think I have a lot of sympathy for Gargleblasters comments that an imaginary guy who will sort out your problems is very comforting. I don't see it that way but I know many who do.

We've discussed whether you gain eternal life by working for it or by believing for it. I think the two are intertwined. Almost the reverse of Pascal if you don't want it then you won't be disappointed when you don't get it.

I don't use religion as an excuse for inactivity and have been very politically involved. I cannot separate religion from politics in my life. If I believe that something is wrong as a person of faith then I believe that I should use my politics to support my belief. I am not in the moral majority or on the right, far from it, ask Gargleblaster!.

Issues of social justice - for me - are what the "Good News" is all about.

Sorry......I hope I have not been misinterpreted. I do believe as a Christian. I also see the other sides of the arguement, and while I have faith.....I am also open to debate.

I enjoy the "Devils' Advocate" role, as it gives more unbiased feedback(well.....as unbiased as religious arguements get!)

It is also my personal opinion that if you wish for others to be open to your beliefs, you must grant them the same courtesy....after all, they are as convinced of theirs as you are of yours!

And who knows......they may be right! It *is* only a matter of faith, isn't it?

NM

"If the Gospels are true, something needs to happen soon to verify them." - That time is overdue by 2000 years. All the words of Jesus and Paul taught that the New Jerusalem would be something that the disciples would see in their lifetime. They spent their whole lives preparing for the second coming, and were disappointed. It was almost the end of Christianity, but then, as has happened throughout history when the fundaments of Christianity have fallen, they simply reinterpreted their own teachings. That's why, after 2000 years of this process, the current dogma bears absolutely no resemblance to what the Bible actually says.

Sorry I haven't got to this question before, been busy with the H2G2 parade.

Three things to think about concerning this:

1. If "Salvation" is to include the idea of eternal life, then how can it be lost? That wouldn't be very eternal.
2. If it is not by works that we are saved, then how by works can salvation be lost?
3. If the act of faith in Christ is great enough to erase all previous sin, then is it not great enough to cover all future sin as well?

Draw your own conclusions.

Not at all, I'm saying that they believed in Jesus as well. Not by that name, but by the promise of a messiah that God had given them. Also, simply believing that God exists has never meant much. You think the egyptians didn't believe in God after the ten plagues? There is a rather large difference between knowing intellectually that God exists and putting trust in him. Likewise there is a difference between believing that the crucifixion of Jesus occured (even intertwined with the belief that he was God and died for the sins of mankind) and trusting in him for salvation.

Neither I nor any christians I personally know feel any animosity towards Jews. My best friends throughout high school were almost all Jewish as a matter of fact. And yes, most of the first "Christians" (not even known by that label then) were Jewish, as was Jesus.

The Jews assumed that he came to bring the kingdom on earth. This is well supported from writings of prophets like Isaiah. However they seemed to ignore the prophecies that said he would suffer and die. So now it is clear. The messiah came once to suffer and die for atonement of sins, and will come again to set up the kingdom of God on earth.

You may find those theories more compelling, but they are less supported by the evidence.

Peraps Paul and other early Christians thought this, but certainly not Jesus. And the early Christians were not entirely wrong in doing so. There is no prophecy that must be fulfilled before the return of Jesus, he may return at any time. Why then does Jesus wait? Consider the great commission. Go ye into all the world and make disciples of all nations? Could that have been done in the lifetime of Paul? I doubt it.

It has always been the contention of Jews that Jesus was NOT the Messiah as prophesized in their own prophesies on the basis of the argument that the Messiah was supposed to bring about an earthly kingdom. I would be interested in references to any OT verses which back up the Christian interpretation of Jesus as the Messiah, because I don't believe there are any.