h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

One of the arguments made by people such as the Naked Rambler is that nudity is natural and therefore should be embraced rather than being something to be ashamed of... now, I *do* agree totally that nudity should not be regarded as shameful, or dirty, or automatically erotic... but I'm not so sure about now the 'nature' bit applies in the 21st Century.

(The following is merely my own opinion on the matter so I'd appreciate people not jumping down my throat as often happens when I start a thread on a potentially controversial subject and lead with my *subjective opinion* of the matter. The hair references are because of the post in the News Story thread that inspired me to create this one)

Thanks to the way we have allowed lifestyle to overtake evolution I seriously doubt that we are actually that well adapted to go around nude all the time these days... it's subcutaneous fat that insulates us (though hair does help, on account of physics) and this far north we're *supposed* to be lean when the weather is generally warm and fat when it's generally cold (slowly putting on the weight in times of plenty and slowly losing it in times of less). And we're not. We're one or t'other all the time. I have no problem with nudity (except my own, but that's another story) but I'm not sure how far you can take the 'natural' argument if you're not living a true hunter/gatherer lifestyle while being naked.

Interesting question.

From what I've seen on telly (so it must be true ) tribes without contact with the west in hot places such as in the Brazilian rainforest and from pictures I've seen drawn of natives in Australia when it was first being discovered and colonised by europeans - they *do* do a lot of nakedness.

However, as you so rightly point out - it's hot there. And also, they still adorn themselves with plenty of trinkets and ceremonial wear. (I'm sure it's not trinkets to them). So nakedness doesn't pose many warmth problems.

I find it very hard to believe that humans have ever gone about naked in the northern climes. OK we could warm ourselves with fire but that doesn't help much on the move. I suspect one of the reasons we managed to adapt to so many habitats is our ability to both make fire and make clothing.

Sewing was apparently a precursor to us colonising Siberia and the Arctic. On the other hand, I'm sure it was Darwin who described the Tierra del Fuegans as being naked all the time. And it's pretty cold there, despite all the fires.

I read somewhere recently (either New Scientist or sciencedaily.com probably) that hair is a great way of discovering if insects are biting you, but that may've been non-visible hair, whose particular name I can't remember.

Generalisations, who'd make 'em, eh?

I read a short story, or it might have been a play or maybe both anyways ...

... around what looked to be a dining table were lavatories in lieu of chairs ... and everybody would get together for their daily excretion.

When they were hungry they would nip into a cubicle to ingest in private - I jest ye not.

Being sedentary and naked in the UK when the sun's not out can be cold, but I'm speaking from experience when I say that as soon as you start doing any sort of exercise, even just walking, you soon warm up to a perfectly comfortable temperature, and I suspect our ancestors didn't spend a lot of time sitting around on their arses...

Skinny dipping in nature is fantastic. I've done it a few times in lovely remote locations. But you are always on edge. Was only spotted once, when I went in somewhere on the Kent coast. This boat moored a little way out, which appeared to have been empty all day, suddenly produced a human head staring in my direction. Gf couldn't stop laughing.

>Skinny dipping in nature is fantastic. I've done it a few times in lovely remote locations. But you are always on edge

Not if you go to naturist beaches you're not, and there's plenty of those in the UK.

>> I suspect our ancestors didn't spend a lot of time sitting around on their arses.

I recall a study which suggested our hunter-gatherer ancestors didn't need to work very long hours, and the admittedly limited evidence I've seen from the TV seems to support that; I remember seeing one rain-forest tribe which went out hunting in the morning and came back to take hallucinogens all afternoon. A 9 to 5 job seems comparatively primative...

I didn't follow all the details of your argument, but you seem to be saying that in Northern latitudes it's OK for fat people to go naked. I have to disagree.

Yes, SD, that's exactly what I'm saying

"I'm sure it was Darwin who described the Tierra del Fuegans as being naked all the time."

To be fair though, from a Victorian perspective most modern people would be practically naked so it may not be naked as we know it...

I think the 'exercise helps' thing may fall down a bit when you consider stuff like hypothermia and that thing that happens when after exerting yourself if you cool down too quickly you get really ill (it has a name but I can't remember it). While it is true that exercise alone will warm you up, you're not trying to survive an Ice Age.

"I think the 'exercise helps' thing may fall down a bit when you consider stuff like hypothermia and that thing that happens when after exerting yourself if you cool down too quickly you get really ill "

Bear into mind I'm only thinking on the fly here, from my own experiences, but surely that's only an issue if you've got *really* hot and sweaty on a very cold day?

"surely that's only an issue if you've got *really* hot and sweaty on a very cold day?"

Well, given that we're having this conversation such opportunities presumably arose...

Curiously, I heard this chap interviewed on the CBC
here in Canada today. He sounds sane and sincere and
quite honestly perplexed that there is a double standard
regarding nudity for children and adults.

Neither he nor the interviewer suggested that puberty
is the traditional line in the sandbox - which bothered
me a bit. But he went on to say with calm conviction
that he simply felt free to let it all hang out and I guess
that as long as it's just hanging there is no real problem.

We've been led to believe that the classic trench-coat
flasher of New Yorker cartoon fame is usually showing off
an erection - that would be offensive and clearly a form
of unwanted sexual assault. The same applies to animals -
we don't notice unless they are aroused; and then people
get excited and start pointing fingers.

The interview was conducted a while ago before his latest
arrest and the presenters were delighted to announce that he
has since served his sentence, been set free, arrested again
a dozen times, held in contempt for appearing naked in court,
served more time and is now once again walking 'free'. Police,
it seems, have arrested him so many times before they have
now decided they have better things to do.

Oh, he did comment on the cold weather in Scotland and regretted
not having realised that with the changing seasons he would be
exposing himself to severely cold winds as he approached the
northern parts of Great Britain on his epic trek. He said it
did keep him moving briskly and he wished he'd done the route
in reverse to avoid the seasonal change in wind directions.
Which was as close to an admission that nudity is un-natural
as he would come.


~jwf~

If you're cold, you'd naturally cover up; but nudity is also perfectly natural.

Fair enuff.
But there is a distinction to be made between
the penis as a limp hose for excreting urine
and the purple pulsing uprighteousness of an
erection which creates an instinctive reaction
of defensiveness. As such it is by definition
considered offensive in public situations. One
cannot be allowed to wave a gun or sword about,
or brandish a knife or spear in a crowd. As the
saying goes, it's all very good until someone
loses an eye.



~jwf~

Now you're just boasting

In the past, when people were more or less naked, their daily activities would have been different. We do have a thought of hygiene now, apart from weather considerations.

I can see that nude swimming could be fine, but I'm not sure I'd like to sit on eg a train seat that other bare bums have been on. It's bad enough being squashed next to clothed people sometimes.

>>We do have a thought of hygiene now,/...

However, the human mouth holds any number of nasties, as does the nose, and not only do we not require them to be covered, it's actively discouraged, or even illegal in France, in the case of the veil.

Oh yes, not to mention hands. It's all about perceptions rather than reality.

Surely the most important fact about Human Nature is that it is our Nature not to be perfectly adapted to our environment, but to have the intelligence that enables us to treat the whole of Creation as "grist to the mill" and raw material with which we can complete the process of our Creation. This of course means that our whole lives are mere 'work in progress' and there are times when one just has to envy other kinds of life forms. I personally always revered trees that, once planted, have no need to make choices as we constantly have to do, since they reach out in all directions sensing and responding to their environment.

And just an aside about explorers and their comments about "clothing" I seem to remember that descriptions of the Plains Indians of North America noted that they wrapped themselves in blankets during periods of inclement weather ( indeed blankets were 'money' among the Haida Indians of 'British Columbia'). This may have been possible because their lifestyles were so dependent upon the weather that basically in bad weather they had no choice but to just wrap up and wait for it to change.

As a pensioner the weeks of practically incessant rain have produced something like this effect on me, which has probably made it worse than for people who have just had to get on with the "daily round" that means that our way of life is much more productive- for better for worse etc.

Cass

Cass