h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Nice try, Edward, except the generally accepted definition of 'white trash' is used to describe very poor people, often living in trailer parks or in other very poor secluded areas of the US - and I'm sure you know this.

So *you* might think this term is not a hugely derogatory generalisation, but in fact it is.

az

Ah. Fair enough. I wouldn't like people to think I was implying that trailer park residents from the US.

I stand humbled. It's interesting to speculate on how fascism suddenly takes hold, though. What are the socio-economic conditions under which all these non-voters crawl out of the woodwork?

I have friends and relations who are being worked on by people with racist agendas. They don't know the BNP (or equivalent) are not what they say they are. Not everyone is brought up to think critically, and my borderline racist acquaintances are all in desperate situations; it is very hard for them when they are told (as one was) that new houses are being built in their area for immigrants, with reduced rents, while they themselves cannot find anywhere affordable to live. Another was told that foreigners are being brought in as cheap labour, and this is why he can't get a job. I live in a university town, where many people pay to come from abroad to do their degrees; all the man on the street sees is a whole lot of dark skin in his home town. My friends and relations are easy targets for racists. They are provided with ammunition for arguments in the same way as anti-evolutionists are, and you have to be pretty on the ball with your facts and figures if you want to change their minds. It's possible they'll be hoodwinked into voting for the BNP, but this doesn't make them trash; it just means they have been misled.

I agree with Matholwch's point about wanting the buggers where we can see them.

On a brighter note, I have various friends who hail from the Middle East, and they tell me we Brits don't know how lucky we are. Even with the BNP and co., Britain has a reputation for being one of the most, if not *the* most, tolerant country in the world.

A couple of friends from Jordan were laughing about the fact that we can refer to our royals as 'Horseface', 'Big-Ears' and so on; in Jordan you'd be slung in jail for that kind of talk; you can even be arrested for not having a picture of the king up in your workplace.

Oops, Az got there before me: I missed those last two posts.

I'd be wary of 'white trash' talk too, not least because it is just the sort of thing they would try and make capital out of. "When whites try to stand up for their rights, we're trash! blah blah".

I think one big contribution to the growth in support for the BNP is the whole New Labour project. A lot of the new BNP voters seem to be former Labour voters who feel completely marginalised by the Labour party in it's new form.

I also think that, without being complacent, it's important to have a sense of perspective. A lot of the media scare stories lately have probably worked in the BNP's favour by projecting them as being much bigger and more successful than they really are, making them a more attractive option at the polling booth for many.

Humbled again....but if you can't refer to BNP voters as trash, then who can you.

Yes, their lies really are insidious. They also play on the ghettoisation that's been allowed to happen.

On the cheap labour issue...unfortunately there *is* a grain of truth in it. A huge black-market, low-wage economy has built up. It's the price of unbridled capitalism acting in the market conditions created by the dismantling of trade unions. In this light...it puzzles me why those in the rural areas are traditionally the least left wing. Their agricultural jobs are now being done by low-paid contract labour. If anything were done about it, offices and hospitals would have to shut as it became impossible to find cleaning staff.

And therein lies New Labour's dilemma. Discussing these issues simply isn't on their agenda. It worries me that nobody is providing political alternatives that challenge the fascist lies.

C&P failure. Penultimate paragraph, before 'If anything were done about it...' insert 'The UK, like the US, has become economically dependent on immigration, including illegal immigration.'

Where is Jayaben Desai when we need her?

I'm surprised the further left parties haven't done better out of the situation than they have. Any views on why not? Factional bickering, a general cack-handed approach, or anything else?

<> (Edward)

That sentence doesn't actually make any sense at all except to show that you were attempting to be snide - and possibly clever or amusing?

<> (me)

Dictionary.com states it as:
1. Used as a disparaging term for a poor white person or poor white people.
2. Used as a disparaging term for a white person or white people perceived as being lazy and ignorant.

I could be wrong but I believe the term originated in the US. And referred to certain segments of society. As you can see, I didn't single out 'trailer park residents' in my post - you did.

<>

* s off to see if there are two moons in the sky!*

az

"if you can't refer to BNP voters as trash, then who can you."

Perhaps the people who start the lies. And the Daily Mail.

>> lot of the new BNP voters seem to be former Labour voters who feel completely marginalised by the Labour party in it's new form.

I'm not sure that's true. We former Labour voters are either continuing to vote with pegs on our noses, simply not voting at all Or...in the rare, fortunate instance (like me) casting our vote for a left wing minority party. The BNP don't seem to be getting their vote from New Labour.

But, yes, as anyone who's read 'Homage to Catalonia' will know, the left are prone to bickering. In France that's how Le Penazi got as far as the last round of the presidential elections.

>>That sentence doesn't actually make any sense at all except to show that you were attempting to be snide - and possibly clever or amusing?

Calm down! It *was* humour

How about if I delete 'White Trash' and insert 'White Lumpenproletariat'?

Hi Snailrind

It appears one of the issues that swung it for the BNP in Berking & Dagenham was that they were telling people on the doorstep that immigrants in Hackney were being given £35,000 to buy up properties in B&D. Thus denying them to poor, white working class families. Something that is actually an outright lie.

When challenged, the BNP councillor who began the rumour, said he had heard it from a black constituent. Apparently he never checked his facts because he had no reason to believe that his source was a liar. Very convenient. This lie was repeated on every doorstep.

This is how fascism works. Anything is ok if it gets you in power. The only weapon you have against it is the truth.

'All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing'.

Blessings,
Matholwch /|\

What does White Trash mean? Why stick with it? You just sound petulant, Ed, as if working yourself up into a froth of just indignation. Doesn't do much for me.

Sorry, that was a post 20. You've apologised twice, no need for a third . . .

That said...their voters are still white scum. I'll stand by that assessment (why quibble over words).

Frankly, I don't believe the crap about their being swayed by lies. These people knew the BNP were a bunch of racist thugs beforehand. Their appearence in the legitimate sphere of a council election merely allows the closeted racists to hold their heads up high and run with the pack.

Yes, there are lies peddled. Yes, a lot of people believe the kind of crap they read in the Daily Mail. Yes, a lot of people are prepared to endorese whichever mainstream party they judge to be most xenophobic and authoritarian. But that's somewhat different to voting for someone you hope is going to make your neighbours' life hell.

<<< In France that's how Le Penazi got as far as the last round of the presidential elections.>>>

In fact, most opinion here seems to think the left wing were simply too damn lazy &/or complacent to bother voting until it became shockingly obvious what had slipped through the back door while they were sitting around smoking dope & gently whinging.

Hence we now have a right wing government, since the alternative would probably have resulted in mass emigration, leaving poor ol' La Penazi with a population composed of brown people & poor white ones without the means to leave.

I've lived in a mobile home by the way. And was certainly poor, but not uneducated. I've lived on a boat as well, for some reason that is seen as being romantic & middle class; ask Richard Branson!

The problem with the immigration thing i think is that as the EU opens up to more countries, obviously those from poor economies will try & move to somewhere with more possibilities & whilst building up a new life will naturally take any work available, since most governments refuse to pay them benefits or give them work permits for the first couple of years. What the hell they are supposed to live on in the interim is beyond me; if they had savings sufficient for that, they would have probably set up a business back home.

So: they work "on the black" for minimum wages & save & try & send back what they can & also try & improve their lot in the new country. but undeniably, they are doing the low paid work that would traditionally have been done by young people, people of low academic skills, people in dodgy emotional circumstances etc. who are citizens of that country.

So: those people end up on the dole. And they get very peeved about it. I am in no way condoning BNP policies but i can understand how they can exploit this. I returned to UK with my partner, me = qualified teacher with 18 yrs experience, him = Chartered Accountant with 25 yrs experience. But both did most of this abroad.

We went to the Job Centre & offered ourselves. "nope, you are too old, you are British citizens who have been abroad too long, we can't do security checks on you, go & sign on for unemployment benefit (me) but he can't; he missed paying a stamp in 1972"

BUT our (genuine) Pakistani friend WAS able to claim full benefits & training course & housing stuff, (resettlement grant) That bit is true & it *does* seem unfair. So if a BNP person had been lurking & IF i had been other than a totally anti-racist person; he would have found a fine target for conversion i reckon.

The latest in France is all foreigners have to prove they understand french language & culture. I have serious doubts i will pass the test. I have serious doubts a french person would pass either, unless bursting into tears counts as a pass mark.

zdt

Ed, I have no problem with your choice of terminology when you say "white trash." I think it correctly identifies a group of people who represent the worst qualities found in the general white population. Personally I just use the term "trailer trash," because it does a better job of identifying the fact that these qualities are universal across all races.

And you don't have to be living in a trailer to be trailer trash. See Paris Hilton.

The way to argue with fascists is in the political forum with the politeness you would like to have from them. (Gosh, does this really need saying?) Name-calling only reduces your own credibility, both to your supporters and theirs.

The Irish Republic had a media ban on Sinn Féin for years (about forty to twenty years ago?) which increased the SF stock greatly with many of the uncommitted and disaffected. Now they are on the radio and TV, and in the Dáil, their fascism can be probed and exposed, to their great discomfort.