h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I didn't "suggest" a crime had been committed, I merely suggested that if the artwork Tango submitted was previously copyrighted, then there are possible legal issues involved in his submission of it as his own work. What Lil added was that if someone else knowingly assisted him in submitting previously copyrighted works, they, too, could be in trouble.

Notice my use of "possible" and "could", both of which are explicitly NOT defamatory...no one is defaming anyone. What we are stating is that there exists a possiblity, however remote, that there are copyright issues surrounding the artwork Tango submitted as his own, since he later declared that he could not have done the work personally. That's not defamation, that's concern. I don't want Tango getting sued by someone for using their artwork. Is it going to happen? Most likely not. But you never know in a sue-happy world.

Yes, MR, you did suggest that a crime could have been committed. Your statement "If he took it from someone else without permission, then that violates copyright laws" was quite correct. Which is why I took no issue with it. Although I think Tango has already explicitly denied breaking the law in a thread elsewhere that you were already in. Which would then make your suggestion slightly dishonest and nasty by suggesting a crime which you already know has not been committed. Tango could quite reasonably re-assert that he/Atled has not broken any laws or house rules though.

It is Lil's statement which is about as wrong and nasty as it can be.

I honestly don't remember Tango saying anything about the legalities of the artwork he submitted. I remember him saying that he had not done it, and that's about it. Which is why I raised the concern.

I guess the bigger issue at hand, that includes all of these things, is the necessity (as he saw it) of Tango trying to be someone he isn't for the sake of getting information. He says elsewhere that Mina wouldn't have let him be a CA because of his association with you, SEF...does he know that for a fact? I have, in the past, been associated with others (one of whom was banned from this site), but no one has held my association against me. In fact, quite the opposite. I was told by several people during that time that my refusal to disassociate myself from the aforementioned person, while maintaining a modicum of decorum, was in fact, a good thing.

Has Tango considered the fact that joining the CAs had nothing to do with his association with you, and everything to do with the fact that he calls everyone who doesn't agree with him stupid?

Spook apparently tried to join the CAs before I even signed up with BBCi or knew anyone. No-one seemed to have a problem with that. However, he found he was too busy preparing for exams and temporarily withdrew his application saying he would be back later. No-one seemed to have a problem with that either. He recently renewed his application and Amy's immediate reaction was to laugh in his face. Now that can't have been because she thought he might not be able to do the artwork since no-one thought that before. It can't be because he withdrew and came back because no-one quibbled with that before (or for anyone else). It can't be for being rude since I can assure you that the existing CAs are perfectly capable of being both irrelevant and very rude. So the only likely remaining thing is the association with me.

Actually SEF, i think that would be the association with *me*. I haven't checked the dates, but i'm pretty sure spook renewed his application after the business with alted got out.

Tango

PS (split post for internet fault reasons again) I don't think your last statement came out quite right. Tango *joining* the CAs was almost certainly not because he calls people stupid.

It is also not the case that he calls everyone who disagrees with him stupid. I'm fairly certain he only does it when the person has disagreed in a stupid way - eg evidently not reading the postings properly or saying something patently ridiculous as Lil just did. I also don't think he would call you stupid simply for messing up that last statement of yours though I doubt he would be impressed by the carelessness. After all he makes his own typos.

Okay, wait a minute, back up. It's awfully early in the morning here, and the caffeine hasn't kicked in yet, so bear with me. I was talking about Tango, not spook. Are they the same person?!

So is it possible that Tango's issues with Mina and the CAs and (apparently, everyone who doesn't agree with him) are self-inflicted? I mean, there seem to be very few people he hasn't insulted! I was on the "What's Wrong with Americans?" thread, and he called me stupid for trying to explain that just because I live in the US doesn't mean I back US policy. That's not exactly the way to get in good with people. And that was what, six months ago?

I am pretty sure i wouldn't have called you stupid for that. In fact, i don't even remember posting to that thread 6 months ago, so could you please provide a link? If i called you stupid at all it would not have been for making that point. It may have been the way you made it that was stupid, but as i don't remember it at all, i can't say.

Tango

I was using Spook as an example of how Tango (as Tango rather than Atled) was likely to be treated. People's main problem with Atled seemed to have been that Tango didn't use his original name/account. They don't have that excuse with Spook and had no reason to doubt his artistic ability. That is fairly conclusive evidence that Tango was right about how any application in his own name would have been treated.

Oh, now I see what you were saying, SEF. Sorry, my brain's always a little fuzzy in the morning. It takes me forever to wake up.

Tango, I will see if I can find the aforementioned post. I'm teaching all day today, however, so it probably won't be until later in the day, or even tomorrow. Possibly, depending on how office hours go, I can get it to you sooner, but don't count on it. The term is gearing up, so things on my end are going to get a little less rapid fire.

I say, Tango, who did the graphics that Atled submitted?

F38024?thread=313145 - post 696 - details exactly what I said about researchers having more than one account. Don't twist my meaning.

I'm pretty sure i never said i didn't do the artwork. I said i can't draw, but, considering you are all saying you haven't seen the artwork, you have no way of knowing if the pictures Atled sent in were any good or not.

Tango

I'm not intending to twist your meaning but I do find a lot of that post of yours unfair and hypocritical.

Plenty of people have signed up with undercover accounts purely to insult and attack people with relative impunity, eg in the latest threads involving Tango. You failed to speak out against any of them. Atled on the other hand did not insult anyone and had a constructive purpose - to look for data which Tango felt he needed when making his list of things wrong with the site and how to improve it (with the additional tiny bonus of giving some graphics to EG articles).

Lil said: "it is fair to say that the interests of the CAs are not Tango's interests".

Well no, it isn't. It is likely that the selfish, dishonest and hypocritical interests of the current CAs are not Tango's interests, but the idealised idea of CAs producing good quality graphics to help the community would seem to be very much the same as Tango's interests. Otherwise he wouldn't have been concerned that this wasn't the case.

Lil said: "said things that were not true and that were intended to misrepresent the truth"

This is the part I find most laughably hypocritical.

Any account that I know about that is created in order to deceive or purely to insult, I would speak out against. The key phrase is "that I know about." SEF, I just don't spend nearly as much time up here on hootoo as you do.

And I don't go to nearly as many parts of the site. My whole reason for being here has to do with the impinging of the Atled account into MY little corner of the site, the atelier and the CA's. I don't have the time to make all these enemies.

I'm sorry to hear that you find me nasty and hypocritical and unfair and stupid and whatever else it was you are calling me.

You are certainly following these discussions, otherwise you wouldn't have just posted here. Have you not seen the people posting as "Researcher XXXXXX" in the threads on this topic?

Tango

What you *should* be sorry about is that you did all those things which caused me to point out those qualities in you in the first place. I'm not seeing any sign of that sort of remorse at all.

Sorry about that, just me being stupid .

Are you suggesting Tango that it is a CA posting as that researcher?

I am certainly following these discussions because they are relevant to the matters I referenced above.

And yes, I've noticed the contributors named for brand-new accounts, and noticed how you have spoken to them, and wondered how you could know they were experienced researchers. I have certainly seen brand-new accounts who seem to understand how things work right away; one of them is currently applying to become a CA (not Atled, of course).

But it seems that every time I ask who did the Atled graphics the question gets sidestepped. Or called names. I think that SEF greatly overestimates me.

I said that wrong: I should have said "or I get called names."

Now I'll go back and look at the simulpost. That looked like a non-acceptance of sorry-ness from SEF.