h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

sign of a very aggressive cancer:mind you on the other hand it may be as a result of "root" in "mammery glands" thus blood is being leeched into mammery system(mastisized tissiue from spaying).

I also know that only you can decide when to intervene with nature so to speak ,and i wished more vets would attend home for final visit,it has a lot of positive results for all parties involved,less stress all round. trainee vetinarians take note.

Thought are with you Az haveing made the decision on occassions my self i can empathise, on a positive note i have known some remarkable cats who surive despite all nature has thrown at them

Have you spoken to your vet again, az? He/she may be able to advise you further as Lua has had some bleeding again.

I think it is worth giving them a call and having a chat even if it only confirms what you already suspect.

Sorry az, so many questions and no answers. I was lucky, 2 vets told me that operating would be euthanasia. Then I read on many websites that in the US they operate a lot to get rid of tumours. I was full of doubt, but realised that my vets said that because that is their skill level. Maybe in the US they take hamsters more seriously, but here they don't care.

Cats are different, vets know them. If a vet said the tumour was too large I would trust them, as that is all you have to go on. You may find out later that 50 miles away there was a wonderful vet who always operates and nothing ever dies on his table. But is that likely? You have to go on your known information.

How long is the average life expectancy for a cat? If Lua has reached that, then simply treasure every extra day as a gift.

Just my opinion though, if you get better information then you can make a different decision.

Caerwynn,

My vet is going to call me tomorrow or Saturday with the blood test results. It may turn out an operation is out of the question anyhow if her kidneys and liver appear to be weak. Yesterday my vet seemed to think the op was the obvious next step but no, I didn't question her enough about that.

One other thing I have been worried about recently about Lua, before all this other stuff, is that she is now walking with difficulty and no doubt with pain because of arthritis in her hip (due to when she broke it several years ago). I was thinking then that I might have to make the decision to have her put down if she became unable to walk. She actually dislocated the hip a few weeks ago - Azar had started chasing her around and suddenly her hip gave out and the poor thing could barely crawl for a couple of days. Then she got better but she still limps a bit when she walks. I have no idea how much pain this is causing her now. I don't want her to suffer just so I can have her around, you know? Damn, this is hard.

I also have a feeling she has had this tumour for a long time, possibly since last summer. I say that because in the past few months she has become a lot more affectionate, almost 'needy'. She follows me around and *has* to always sit next to me (on her own special stool - honestly, I have to keep moving the stool around for this purpose otherwise she complains - ack ack). It's no joke that I call her the crankiest thing on four paws so this recent change has been quite noticable.

Even one of my students who had classes with me last summer and then returned again in October says he noticed a difference in Lua when he came back. She never used to let Alvaro pet her but now she holds up her head so he can stroke her under the chin. Recently I have wondered about this change and wondered if perhaps she was ill but then I thought that she was maybe just 'mellowing' with old age. It's just such a shame that she has never wanted me to pick her up, otherwise I might have discovered the lump under her nipple sooner.

Too many 'what ifs' going on for me to feel sure about what to do.

az

Kaz,

Average life expectancy for a cat is between 15-20 years. Lua is almost 14. And she has had a very good life.

I know of people in Canada who spent up to a thousand dollars on operations and treatments for their cats and dogs only to have them die anyhow.

Even if I could afford to pay that, which I can't, I cannot see putting Lua through endless trips to the vet's for nothing.

I need to decide. Once that is done then I can get on with what I need to do.

az

I hope the blood test results are good. Best of wisdom to help you with your decision

Az you life expectency is for cats with responsible owners, average life in most "town/ferral cats nearer 7/8" most deaths occureing due to not neutering ,and letting or puting out for long periods,at dawn or dusk,busy time on roads with bad lighting conditions,with to many distractions for ,what are still kittens or youngsters for the first 18 months of life.

As for op at her age and your understanding of her "outlook" i would take vets advise, most "cranky" or cats with charicter do tend to mellow out round about 7/8 ,but it seems Lua is aware of her condition ,i was lucky in a way with hannah she had a massive stroke one day in retrospect the signs had been there for two weeks before it happened, the last thing she did was let out two mournfall meows and died (peacefully) the next day,henry hasn't looked for her, and in fact avoided her favorate places for a couple of weeks,but now likeing being only cat.

Sometimes other people notice before we do and it wasn't until afer we had a 2 week holiday that I really saw how poorly poor Sadie was. She had probably had her tumour under her tongue for some time, but it wasn't somewhere anyone with sense would check a tortoiseshell if they want to keep their fingers. She was beginning to find eating difficult and so the decision wasn't hard to take even though is was terribly upsetting for us, it was obvious she was suffering.

I wonder if Lua is trying to tell you something by her need for closeness? It may just be that her time has come and you will have to let her go, 13 is an excellent age for a , some breeds do live longer, but not many.

hi Caerwynn,

A very close friend of mine who has had stomach cancer just sent me this in an email:

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I am quite prepared to let Lua go and do everything to comfort her. It's just the *not knowing for sure* if an operation would really help her that is causing me the worst difficulty right now.

az

If the decision were mine, I think I would probably have her put to sleep. Just the thought of the poor puss not understanding what was happening to her would be enough for me. I would console my self with knowing that she had had a good life and lived to a good age and didn't suffer towards the end.

None of my s have ever gone to the vet's without getting in a tizz, they yowled and fought before I've even got them in the carrier. So an operation on top would only be if I knew for sure that it would save their life.

See what the vet has to say, if he/she is doubtful of the success of the op, then my view would be not to put Lua through it.

thanks Caerwynn,

The last two times I've taken Lua to the vet's this past week she has screamed her head off the whole time - all the way there and all the way back. Not sure if that was more traumatic for me or for her!

Some people are telling me to just let her be and care for her as best I can until she dies naturally at home. Others are telling not to give up on her without a fight. I'm exhausted.

I wouldn't have her put down now as she seems quite okay at home. If it got to the point where she stopped eating and seemed very distressed I would then have to think about having the vet come over to put her out of her pain. I'm assuming my vet will do this as she has told me before that she makes house calls. I would not take her to the vet's to be put down. Rather than that, if I couldn't get a vet to do this, I would ask one of my many doctor friends to help me do this at home.

az

It's a very difficult decision. I hope the results of the tests at least give a clearer picture; at least the decision itself would be easier.

Stay strong.

Noggin

az

I think I knew about Jake by looking into his eyes. He wasn't as he used to be. He was, like Lua, overly clingy towards the end. We just put it down to the fact that he was past kitten and mellowing out more - wanting to spend more time indoors and close to us.

On Sunday he was trying so hard to be Jake but I could see that he was too tired. He didn't know that he couldn't do the things he should be able to and in his head he *was* able to do those things - his body let him down.

I am steadily coming to terms with the decision I made. I now don't regret letting him go. I know that if I had not made that decision he might have suffered greatly - and for what? So that I could hold on to him for a bit longer? I didn't know how bad his cancer was. The vet advised we take a look to eliminate any doubt about it. If it had just been a tumour on his spleen then the vet would have removed it and we would have tried chemo - he was afterall only 6 and could have fought it - maybe. As it was, the vet found that the tumour was all through his intestines and had sent out roots all over his body. If I had decided not to find out, the cancer would have spread rapidly and he would have had no longer than a week or so and would most definitely have suffered.

You need to make a decision soon. The longer you leave it the harder it will get. Put your mind at rest - ask the vet what he/she thinks is best for Lua.

Whatever decision you make my goes out to you.

Lady

hi Lady,

I think in the case of Jake, he was still quite young and the fact that he had collapsed physically and was obviously very unwell made the operation a last ditch effort to save him. So you made the only choice possible there.

Lua is still behaving quite normally. Eating well, playing a bit, being her usual cranky self, bless her. I can't see changing that for the trauma of an operation that might end up doing no good at all and might end up killing her.

She is more than twice the age Jake was. She has other problems too, with the arthritis, as I have said. It's really hard to tell if she is in much pain. She doesn't act as though she is in pain, and especially since I started giving her the paté she seems to have an even bigger appetite than ever.

You had a cat at death's door that obviously needed extreme help. My situation is not the same - yet. What would you do if you were me now? The vet just says until the op is performed then they won't know if Lua can be saved. But I'm not sure I agree with this. I think the op might kill her. And she is almost 14 years old. If she were half that age I would probably say - fine, let's try the op. But . . . but but but . . .

Sorry if I am driving everyone nuts with my indecision. But I just don't know how to decide.

az

hi az

I was told by my vet that cats have a very high tolerance to pain and don't show it unless it is severe.

I think we, as cat people, can sense when our cat is not *right*. I could tell for sure that something was wrong on Saturday - but he had obviously been ill long before that - just hidden it very well.

The actual symptoms that alerted me to the fact that he was so ill were not of the cancer but of the anaemia that the cancer was causing. As I said I didn't know how bad it was and the initial operation was to explore. When I got the news I had been dreading the decision was made instantly.

You have the dilemma of choosing whether to let things take their natural course and to prevent any unnecessary stress or choosing to find out exactly what the situation is and then act on that knowledge.

You must ask yourself whether the not knowing is something you can live with. Would you rather carry on until Lua shows signs of distress and then do something - like I said earlier, you will *know* when there is something really *wrong* ...

or would you like to find out exactly what can be done for her - one way or the other?

You have every right to be anxious and you are not driving everyone nuts - we are all reaching out to you and hoping you have the strength to make one of the hardest decisions you'll ever have to make.

I just called my ex-vet and he told me that if the blood tests come back showing that Lua's renal system can withstand the general anaesthetic that before deciding to operate I should have an x-ray of the thorax done to see if the cancer has spread to the lungs - he said the x-ray would show any secondary tumours.

Why didn't my present vet suggest this???

I have switched vets recently because the last place always did way too many expensive tests for the simplest of things. For example, last time I took Lua in because she had been vomiting a lot it cost me 120 euros just to find out she had a bit of gastrointeritis! They tested her for all sorts of weirdo unlikely things (x-rays, blood tests) before treating her for the most obvious thing.

Anyhow, I apologised to Miguel Angel that I was calling him after taking Lua elsewhere but he said not to worry, that he wanted to advise me the best he could. He said I should have a thorax x-ray done and if it showed other tumours then an operation would be useless. He also said that if there are no other tumours present that in spite of the size of Lua's tumour and the fact that it is bleeding and in spite of her age, he would recommend an operation.

Information! What I have been wanting and needing to help me make my decision.

So now I have to wait for the results of the blood test. I almost want to race Lua to the vets today for an x-ray, but I'll wait and see what the blood test results are. Though I'm sure she doesn't have any renal problems. Even my present vet said this was unlikely but they always do this test with older cats as a precaution.

Well, at least one more vet trip for an x-ray won't be anything painful for her (other than the trauma of her screaming all the way there and back again in the taxi).

I'm quite prepared to accept the possibility that the tumour has spread to the lungs or whatever. But I just really needed to know this before deciding on the operation. It all seems so simple now - why didn't my vet suggest this in the first place? aaaaargh.

az

Vets we had 2 completely different diagnosis from 2 vets about Fluffy. One said that its easier to say tumours then to make a proper diagnosis, he said the growth in her neck was due to poo stuck in the pouch, and the growth in the abdomen due to constipation, he also said she had a bladder infection.

The second vet said it was 2 tumours and that the signs of the bladder infection were just normal wee, which we agreed with hamster wee being white and oozy.

Go with the vet you trust. I hope things are becoming easier to deal with now that you have some helpful ideas from your old vet.

Kaz,

Oh I know! Vets! Aaaargh! Going to cut and paste what I just wrote to Fathom about this when he suggested I must be feeling happier about having more information:

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And so . . . what a day. I've cancelled half my classes because I was just too upset to work properly. Well, I have one more class in about an hour but I feel at least somewhat less hysterical now.

Also smoked almost a whole packet of cigs this afternoon after not smoking for five weeks (well, except for last Sunday when I also succumbed to STRESSSSS).

Thank you everyone for being so supportive. Really. I know this is just my journal and I can ramble on as much as I like about anything. But your support and caring has been amazing. And it was so good that Lady could also find some comfort here.

Well, have to pull myself together now to teach my next class. I could have cancelled that one too but I reckon I need the cash to maybe pay for an operation soon. At least the x-ray.

az

It's good that you have had a chance to talk over the possibilities with your ex-vet and when you have the test results you will be in a better position to make a decision, either the op or a quite end at home when the time comes.

Az on that thought get a price for the op and ask for a reduction,of the cost of xrays from the op.
I know what you mean about every test available,that is a result of a lot of vets training where "owners" routenly cover pets on insurence, then they get carried away, hannahs purr you would have thought a kettle was bubbleing,didnt mean to say her lungs where full of fluid.

Also a lot of vets in that part of spain i would imagine see a lot of FEV and cat flu ,from ferral communities, so "falsly" in many cases
assume/prefer one diagnosis over the other.

Hi tech vets do have a advantage over smaller ones though often the best equipment!

Heres a thought you could try "Barter" offer to "earn" some of cost by
helping in surgery,that way you will be close to Lua ,haveing Dr Freinds might help ,worth a try.

Lateral thinking sort a way