h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Hi blicky. Just thought I'd drop by and say thanks - s has been telling me how supportive and happy for her you've been, and I can hardly say how much I appreciate that - she's one in a million.

Noggin

ps I don't think I ever congratulated you and liz. Most remiss of me. May you have a long and happy life together.

Its nice to be nice, so no thanks are needed but its nice to be having them.

one love

Wow, this is so nice!


az

ps
I feel very proud of myself that I didn't stoop and reply to the 'I'm not talking bats' comment on the god thread.

buenos días, hermano mio,

How are you today? Sorry for talking total b*ll*cks last night on the LOTR thread. I kinda cringed when I saw it again this morning. Ah well, worse things happen at sea.

Having a nice day?


sis

we are all allowed a few grouchy days

Im lazy and unhappy today at my own laziness so theres only one thing for it. Im supposed to be on hloiday but

I hope you have a niceday too

one love

Oh, I wasn't feeling grouchy, just thought I wasn't making any sense.

You're on holiday now? For how long?

I'm going to try and take a couple of weeks off while P is here, which will be my first 'holiday' in about twelve years. That should be nice.

back to w*rk . . .

az

On holiday from the school.

Doing my last week of work in ten days to induct the new guy, but Im still doing surestart stuff and the youth service youth club two nights a week.

Plus trying to move house and escape proof the garden fence for the .

No rest for the wicked.

Trust me it looked grouchy from this end

No harm done though

Morning bigSIS,

Just been over to the sanctuary, "wohoo!" eh? Hope it all goes

Anyway got a question for you. What does "Negro" mean in Spanish, imthinking particularly of older terms. Someone told me it means "black object" amongst other things.

Negro (pronounced nay-grow) means black. It is generally used to describe the colour of either objects or people. It can also refer to mood, humour and 'dinero negro' is money obtained without paying taxes on it.

Spaniards are not very PC, btw, but I don't think they mean any sort of racial slur when they describe someone as 'el negro' just as I don't when I say 'the black guy'.

Anything else?




az

So originally before major contact with Africans from western and central africa it would have been used to signify a black object. People of Africa historicaly would have been refered to as Moors?

Dont worry its nothig bad (as such) just need some info dont want to

It simply means the colour black. Black hair, black box, black jacket and also black person. No idea when this became common usage though for people though. Didn't Spain always have contact with Africa? I'm quite sure the Romans had African slaves here.

I believe that historically the Moors were refered to by name - los moros.

Which thread is this?


sis

I heard in a seminar (lost the notes) that african slaves were specifically called negros so that their treatment would not be covered by the law as they were "black objects" and not people los moros ect...

I was going to reply to something that jwf put on the Tolkien thread a few days ago. Its nothing too heated but it is fundamental to my argument about the relation ships between language - thought - action.

From today Im African even though I was born in smethwick.

one love

Honey, this must be very frustrating for you. But it is also frustrating for me.

I only use distinguishing adjectives to describe people when there is a specific circumstance. Like, who is that cute black guy over there? Frankly, I can't think of situations when I actually need to refer to anyone's ethnic background. Unless I am making a point - for example my friend Mike is very very beautiful. He is like looking at a work of art. And he is a lovely exotic combination of Italian and Chinese - just imagine. Tall, dark with almond shaped eyes and skin the colour of cafe au lait. Totally exquisite facial features. Very exotic this guy.

Fine.

I might also, say at a hootoo meet, be asked - which one is blicky? And I know I would say - 'he's that tall gorgeous black guy with the dreads over there!' Now, am I being offensive? Should I leave out the word black? I mean, okay, you're more coffee-coloured than black, but that isn't the point. Or is it?

So now you want to be called African. Fine. But why? You are probably about as African as I am. Culturally speaking.

Well, I won't step on your very sensitive toes about this. But I do wonder why you find this such a personal issue. F**k, I'm part Canadian Indian, part Canadian Irish - I grew up in a very racist part of Canada that hated all Indians (who should now be called Aboriginal Canadians - ick) and *there* I do look Indian to people. Away from Canada people wouldn't recognise the 'obvious features'. But I refuse to feel ashamed for . . . what? Being me? F**k them.

I'm sorry, but I just can't share your sensitivity in this matter. I know you have gone through some nasty shit with racism. And so have I. But to me you are my very special 'little brother'. That gorgeous black guy with the dreads. I mean no offense at all when I think of you in that way. Okay, I could take away the word black, one less adjective. Or replace it - call you that gorgeous African guy with the dreads? Except you're not African. You were born in Smethwick.

Oh, I do find all this PC stuff so tiresome.

Word of advice - don't ever come to Spain. Because you might hear yourself referred to as 'el negro' just as I am often referred to as ' la señora' - and I always snap back going - 'ITA, ITA SEÑORITA!'
(the term señora smacks of being an *old* bird).

Do you ever think you might be overreacting? I do this a lot, as you probably know. And I think in this case you might be too. Because you are just you. I can't remember if you became my little hootoo brother before or after I knew what 'colour' you are. Do you honestly think this would have made any difference to me? I mean, f**k.

BIGsis

Of course not bigSIS.

One to another we dont care about all that stuff which is emminently cool

The way I am with true friends like you has enhanced my life.

Iknow that you would not knowwingly disrespect another through your actions or words and if your did something that they saw as a definite slap in the face you would be making a point and not doing it to be disrespectful. If that makes sense

"Should I leave out the word black? I mean, okay, you're more coffee-coloured than black, but that isn't the point. Or is it?

Its not massively offensive, hell by standards of previous times it is actally very respectful, but the word black is still a negative one in many of its conotations aswell as being very inaccurate in describing anyone. Teah you get some really dark skinned peole but no one who is truly black.

I dont want to be called black/British. F**k that if I cant be British they can shove it where the sun dont shine. (yes I do see the purpose of ethnic monitoring of service provision, arrest rates, employmetn and such like). The recognition of my African heritage which is what people see before they even think about my british heritage is the next step in political correctness.

Yes it is tiresome. Nobody said the road to equality was going to be easy and I do feel for inclusive loving people who get flustered by changes they dont need to make. Yet there are those who still cause trouble are abusive and the abuse and trouble has to be addressed in some how. One of the ways is changing the way we think about each other and ourselves.

one love

I still don't understand how you are any more African than, say, my aunt Bernadette. Did your upbringing include African culture? Or is it just because of your skin colour? Meanwhile, Noggin says that all of us are African if we go back far enough.

<>

Is that how you are usually referred to? And how is African-British any better when you say you would just like to be considered British since this is what you are?

Heck, the PC-ers don't even let me call myself part Canadian Indian - I'm *supposed* to call myself part Aboriginal Canadian (ick). But frankly, I reckon I can call myself whatever I want. And I guess so can you. So, hey, no argument.

Just one more observation. As you know, I'm from Canada. And though there is still racism against Indians it *is* getting better. Meanwhile, cities like Toronto are a 'cultural mosaic' and it's very normal there to say to someone - 'oh, where do you come from? - because there are so many mixtures of this and that. They normally mean by this question - 'where does your family come from?' - as there are now second and third generations of people who 'look' like they come from somewhere else but in fact were born and raised in Canada. But this isn't about pidgeon-holing people - it's just natural curiosity because there really are so many interesting and different ethnic mixes going on there.

But the real observation I wanted to make was that when I moved to Bristol I was frankly very shocked at how racist and violent that place is. And people there told me it was pretty much the norm in the UK. I cannot say if this is true or not but I witnessed some pretty awful things there - the main 'targets' being black or east Indian people. I can't say this doesn't also exist in Canada (hell, my own father hated 'n*ggers and p*kis') but in Bristol it was so 'in yer face' that it was hard to ignore.

So maybe this is why you are so on the defensive - and that is very understandable under those circumstances.

Well, anyhoodle, it feels totally normal to me that my little brother is coffee-coloured. And as you well know, the only thing I cannot tolerate is intolerance. But I will respect your wish to be referred to as African-British, though I can't actually imagine a situation where that would come up.

Oh, I just love you so much! You have always been an amazing friend, you stand by me, you help pick me up when I am down, you have such a *real* caring for people and a genuine desire to help them. I admire that very much. Also you are smart and witty and have a real love of life. How did I ever get so lucky to find a friend like you???

kisses,
sis

Hi bigSIS.

I only do what I do because "love flows between us like the palm doth flourish" You are very welcome to everything and I only consider it a fair trade for the frienship, honesty and support I get from you.

But frankly, I reckon I can call myself whatever I want. And I guess so can you. So, hey, no argument.



CULRURAL IDENTITY

You as a thinking person are coming round to the ideas quicker than I did when I first heard these ideas as a teenager. My cultural identity is very British in the sense of food, music, language, stubourness(?)ect...but I'm not British in the eyes of people in everyday life. Which is a shame because it unsettles me and others at a very funadmental level.

Imagine how it must feel to not be allowed to paint your home in the way you want or to read the books you like.

That is a little what its like to live all your life in a country but still be held at arms length in several important ways.

What right has anyone to deny my Britishness I have earned it worked on it and learnt it it belongs to me and Im proud of what I have become.

ETHNICITY

On the other hand my ethnicity is something I was born with and cant really change (even though we can mess around with the names). I see nothing it it to be proud of. I was ashamed at one point, but moved on from there.

Say it loud
Im black
and Im proud

But now Im moving on from there. Just because you are not ashamed of something does not mean you have to be proud of it. Especially when it is something which you have completly no control over.

Noggin makes the obvious point about being African but we dress ourselves up in so many things and impose so many names on other people that we overlook this fundamental truth.

I didnt like the idea of being African initially as Id fought both figuratively and physically to be British for so long that I did not want to abandon that. On top of this the Eurocentric environment I grew up in made me think that Africa was a place of less worth somehow. I coulndt put my finger on it but I felt it.

I remember listening to the news about "black Africa" during the aparthied era. Get that! There was South Africa one country where a *minority* of people were of european stock and a few countries in North Africa with predominantly Arab populations. Why was the majority of the continent refered to in that way?

More importantly what effect was this and language like "the dark continent" aswell as the dual meanings of the word black?

So Im not black, as anyone with functioning colour vision can see that this is just a convention many use for people with skin that looks darker than typical european. Im begining to wonder if it is something more sinister than a simple convention and not something appropriated to give the impression of inferiority initially and now something that is so embedded in the way we use language it is not easy to erase?

Im not offended by people calling me black or coloured. Yet I can see a parallel. Im positive about women in sports but *still* want to call people who cant throw properly girls for their lack lustre efforts This is not good and I dont mean it to be offensive to girls, but it is.

Even if a girl hearing it isnt outraged it can effect he sense of involvement and her personal development and self esteem. So in the future Id like to see people refered to in less negative ways and less divisive ways we are all human and we all ultimately come form Africa.

one love

Honestly blicky, you are my most favourite little brother ever!

It's great that we can discuss sensitive topics and know that each of us is sensitive to what the other feels and needs. So I don't feel I have to worry about you ever taking me 'the wrong way'. And vice versa.

I guess I'm different from you in that I don't actually 'identify' with any cultural or ethnic anything anymore. But I see that this works for some, if not many, people.

You already know what I think of racist attitudes, judging by how I deal with them here on hootoo. No patience with that sort of crap at all. It's pretty much a zero-tolerance zone for me.

Personally, as you know, I see no problem with calling someone black in a certain circumstance (describing someone physically, for example) and there is no insult ever intended. What? From me?

It does seem hard these days to get through the day without offending someone unintentionally. So frankly, I don't bother trying. I am straightforward and honest, if people want to read sh*t into what I say then that is their problem. Though I do find myself having to explain myself at times to those who don't know me well enough.

You once told me I was one of your best ever hootoo experiences, and the same goes for me. I can't imagine not knowing you and caring about you and sharing our stuff here and elsewhere.

And I can't even begin to count the ways you have enriched my life. So I cannot imagine my life without my favourite badger, my little brother, my very dear friend.

Oh, I'm feeling a bit weepy. But it's all true.

Love you, honey,
sis

MorningbigSIS.

Im very happy right now and finding messages like the one above just puts more cherries on my cake.

Further to the negro thing does it everget used in a negative way similar to "black monday" or "black magic"?

Hi bigSIS,

hope things are going OK with Lua and the rest of the feline throng and that its not stressing you too much.

There is a house across the street from us where there was a fire and has not been any repairs as yet and now bats appear to be roosting there. So at night I get to watch them swooping and fluttering between the narrow rows of terraced houses catchibg flies and moths as I take the gos for their evening walk in the park

Nearly moved in so wont be around here for much longer and will be a less frequeb visitor for a little while, but I'll be cak but not as much as usual around September.

Well, take it from me, bats swooping and fluttering around one's livingroom is quite another sort of experience.

You're not going to be on hootoo again until September???




sis