h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

And another e-mail.

This is getting tedious. Can't we discuss it here?

I mean, nobody ever reads Convos in my Space. Except her. Oh, yeah, and the guy with the miscoloured underwear...

Alright. Reply here

(which means I sent you an email back )

Well, yeah. Reply, right.



Well, actually that's all pretty clear except for what the actually means. Oh yeah, and when do you want it written by? I mean, can I finish this other thing first, or are we go-go-go?

Some intersting models there. Not sure about the Spook one. That's...radical

Why are you surprised that Jeronimus got in? I was only surprised that they didn't edit him to oblivion. Then after that I was surprised when some other stuff proved to be too...well, whatever it was that it wasn't, yeah?

How about PROD? (Peer Review, Only Different)

A661547

I'd like it as quickly as possible, seeing as the other thing should sequentially come after the first thing.
(I feel like I'm a gangster with the FBI on his tail.)

Spook.
Format-wise.
Don't get in our belfry.

You're probably right. No big surprise it got in, only that it wasn't edited to death.
Did I ever tell you that a RL friend of mine was the sub on Batavia? He wasn't really a very experienced sub. You're lucky you didn't get a different sub, really. They might've consulted the powers about the tense usage and other things.

We'll prod 'em on with PROD and then show them the ANSWER.

(see? This is why email is good. We've probably confused the hell out of db and the good Lady and other lurkers. By the way, any other lurkers, come out from your hiding places if you believe in what we're doing)

OK. I'll see what I can do, as St Jarvis once said.

(As quickly as possible, huh? There's another radical concept)

Yeah, I knew that now you mention it. And Funderlik artwork. I was lucky.

Confusing the hell out of people is a good thing. When you explain something completely, it turns to stone.

And people shouldn't have hell in them in the first place. Exorcism by confusion, eh? (That's neat. I might even put that in)

You'll have noticed that I've resisted a whole string of popcorn-opportunities, but what a little Entry that is. It should be in the EG, for exorcism's sake.

smiley. They could have had a big foot either.

On second thoughts, we have enough homage to fossil humour around the place already. Popcorn it is.

oy, confusion is good for melodrama, as Pin doubtless knows. but it ain't worth a load of dingo's kidneys for participation, to borrow a phrase. if there is something that needs doing, i can chip in. i'm not too bad at potatoes, if i may say so myself.

some random things that came to mind:

1. we can organise a Concerted Move to Recognise Good Writing: perhaps we can show why lots of good writing gets left out of the EG, but which people tend to read nevertheless. a compilation of EG-worthy entries, perhaps with recommendations as to modifications that might make them strictly adhere to writing-guidelines
2. me and some schoolmates recently did a study of h2g2, and described how the structure of the site supports writing of a particular kind, and how the UG and EG stand with respect to each other. we could reuse that data to describe what difficulties PR has, and why entries that get rejected are, in the views of the writers, of the same quality and type as EG worthy entries, thus making a case for more extensive inclusion of already existing entries

~ db

Hi db

How and when do we get to see that study, btw?

Maybe you're right about confusion. A good case needs all the styles of presentation. Ring every bell youcan reach.

The Good Writing cause is tricky. It cuts to the fundamental point of the site - is it to disseminate knowledge, is it to stimulate friendship, is it to cultivate web-use? All these things seem to be placed higher than improving writing by the Towers. You'll know the (infuriating) message as well as any of us :

"If you're trying to write provocatively, that's very nice, but you're doing it in the wrong place"
(Scouts' idea of a pat on the head and the casual toss of a biscuit)

The hardest problem with the quality-writing push is the charge of elitism. Some people argue quite concertedly that high standards degrade inclusivity. All I can say is that we have to let people set their own bar, but we have to stop gushing like proud parents when they set it so low they can step over it.

Concerted Move. Yeah.

Maybe we should call it the Concerted Movement. Trouble is, you've then got to work to find out what it means. More dog-offal, unfortunately.

You're in db, that's for sure. Just don't peel too many potatoes yet. I don't think we've quite decided whether and where we're on the march.

the study will arrive soon as i finish with the semester, and we clean up ('sanitise') the report we gave our prof to remove all references to screen name and other potentially identifying material (no real names were used anyway).

and you're right about the Good Writing bit: those other things indeed seem to be plaved higher than the towers, and they also seem to be the reasons why many of the people on the site are on the site. but i wasn't saying that we should help people improve writing: i simply wanted to bring good writing to the forefront, and possibly change attitudes about what should be in the EG and what shouldn't.

there's just too much good writing scattered all over h2g2 that people should read, whether it is for the EG or not. i'd just like to see all that consolidated somehow. as things stand, both the borderline EG-worthy, and the incredibly creative but completely fictional pieces of writing we see in the AWW, as well as the innumerable rants and short pieces that aren't even concerted efforts at writing that people create are all called entries, and all clutter the space, without any hope or means of distinguishing 'good stuff' from, well, 'just stuff'

i think that just being able to see a consolidated mass of categorised writing will do a lot for moves to change what the EG is/should be and the like.

unfortunately, this isn't a wiki, so not everyone can just go and add their writing to a categorisation page - given the kind of things people put up, i'm not sure that is wise, either, to let people categorise for themselves - we'll end up with a crazy confection without any guiding/sorting hand.

something needs to be done, that's for sure. perhaps if we could engineer a few small experiments within the AWW, for instance, we might be able to decide how to take this to PR and the EG.

oh, popcorn time

~ db

Hm...

Alright, I'm going to be the daft one here and ask the very basic question - what exactly ARE we looking for?

You keep talking about good writing, but of what sort? Fiction? Non-fiction (i.e. entries that are good but won't make it into the EG nowadays)? A combination of both?

I mean, it's gonna be much easier - for me, anyway - to sniff around for good writing once I got an idea of what it's supposed to smell like.

hmm, i'll speak for myself: with apologies to Pin, i'm looking for stuff like this A2126945

it's well written, talks about aspects of something that happened in a manner that a factual entry wouldn't. it's also not EG worthy, but perhaps can be reused to write an innovative, offbeat piece that can be included in the EG

'good writing' would be well written, and worthy of greater publicity. of course, that publicity needn't be the EG. if we can show that there's good stuff lying around that can inspire EG worthy material, if not actually being EG worthy material, we should be able to provoke interest in the community.

in short: quality writing that may or may not be EG-worthy, but which can at least be used to generate EG material.

~ db

here's another example: A3926009, with one discussion around it: F2080809?thread=630010

~ db

Hi All, and particularly Lady P

5 mins ago I e-mailed Jodan with my stab at the Mission-Page. It's a consensus of our discussions. It stops well short of advocating fiction in the EG. It appeals for more stimulating, varied and inclusive Entries.

Interesting that db cited Gorgon. If you read the thread at its foot, you'll see that it was written in a previous cycle of this loop.

Lady P - you'll need to feed us an e-mail address if you want editorial input before the manifesto gets posted. Jodan is fond of doing these things off-site.

He's not always right, but he tends to get his own way owing to his abnormal deficiency of apathy.

Admit it Pin, you'd be lost without me

Damned Microsoft Word opened it long enough so I could read the first 2 paragraphs and then never again.
Please email it to me directly

I'd be 10 st without you.
(Actually, that sounds a bit skinny, so stick around, OK?)

It's e-mailed. I'm a little shocked by your failure to properly venerate St Bill of the Gates, but we'll let that pass.

Pin (off to revive the Office Assistant)

Not really supposed to be online right now...

Anyway, email is lady (dot) pennywhistle (at) gmail (dot) com. Nice and easy.


And another thing... even if I don't get to do anything else on this project, at least it has made me rethink the writing on my (constantly-under-construction) Jerusalem entry. I'm not a tour guide, and hate trying to sound like one; I've been doing too much of that. I have a better idea of what I want it to look like now, and I'll probably be rewriting some of the sections of my draft. Guess I have you guys to thank for it.

In an uncharacteristic move, I've posted something onsite - a basic, (very) rough draft of the page. A3987949

Pin wrote the first part (with a few suggestions from Waz and I), I wrote the second part. It's a start. Please post thoughts, suggestions, etc there. I'm not ready to go public yet, so let's confine news of this to us and the lurkers

Don't ask me, Hatstand. I'm as bemused as you are. I just hope db and Lady P know what they've let themselves in for.

No I didn't write a piece for the Post

Because I didn't know...look that's all been and gone. Concentrate on what they're up to now will you. List the evidence:

A grass roots campaign, 'An encouragement of creative writing editorial' entry for The Post, yeah. Which became a satisfactory hybrid. Oh, I see where the all writing one came in now - see I thought we were all building from that seal's starting piece.

We might so have agreed! We all want the same thing, we're just all working from different maps. Anyway, back to the list. We'll sort this out quicker if you stop passing remarks.

Representations to the Towers, list of must-reads for the Post piece, Pin writing pieces that push the boundaries, widening the field, Jodan wants it done yesterday...

I didn't pass a remark. You shouldn't be listening to what I'm thinking.

Now here it gets confusing - can you tell who's editing what? Nor me. But Jodan's peeling potatoes with blunt implements.

Oh look, back to the fields again. Grazing community pastures -it's the sheep in him. Then popcorn, exorcisms, fossils, spooks, the FBI, dingo kidneys and chips...Concerted Movements. No remarks, remember, or we'll be here all night. A Mission statement ...

I agree. Lets wait for that. That will explain Everything. ?

Didn't get much time for .

It's like they're not even listening, eh Pin?

Right now, my priority is setting up a core of supporters. Didn't occur to me (or anyone, I think) to do this formally until db and LP here volunteered.
Then I reckon the 10 Best Reads to the Post.
And Pin works on his piece at his own pace.
And when all that's done, we can be taken seriously by the Italics.

It's confusing, yeah, but from what I recall, the UG was born out of more confusion than this. (I thought 'AWW' was an expression of remorse or love for a while)