h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

>>What does it take for me to have my change of name honoured?<<

A show of honour on your part would be a good start. You've been doing well recently, I thought. Don't spoil it now, eh?

Of course, whatever name people use, it might look odd in a couple of weeks if you change your user name again.

How many have you actually had?

Jez - not Jemima nor Jeremy

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What a nice, patronising thing to say! You are the only person who has seriously stated me to be "without honour" but neither you nor azahar has ever told me what it was I did to earn that insult from you! (I have asked repeatedly, BTW).
I have had one name, until Member wrecked it, then I changed to Annie Laurie, which he attempted to pun on, but it was beyond him, poor dear. Then I settled on Adelaide, which was (a) a childhood nickname and (b) incorporates Della and Adele, which was a name I had on an account I started when there were server problems and I couldn't log on. I had to ditch Adele, when I somehow got onto Member's
hate list back last Novemeber. That's the story, Jezzamine!

I've been reading more of the backlogs. Azahar actually tried very hard, at one point, to stop all the stuff that was happening, even to the point where she wrote a rather harsh (but disarmingly honest) evaluation of blicky and Member, on a thread that only herself and those two researchers were part of - in fact, from how tricky it was to find it, I'd guess that it was considered effectively hidden.

Yes, it didn't go on for much longer than a week. However, I don't think she's interested in resurrecting the conflict, it's more likely that she was merely angry that he had posted in her comments, and went to the first personal and direct line she had to you - this thread.

Her choice might have been influenced by her being angry, but I doubt she meant to start anything. Although I suspect it still nags at her she has had quite enough, from what I can tell (though blicky seems to be yearning for more).

Azahar, did he post his email address with the comments?

It's a shame he's gone. I can't really condone what he did, but I appreciate that it was in anger, and I presume that he will learn from his error. In fact, the reason I still consider the people in this conversation friends is because I'm able to forgive them for what they do in anger. That may sound rich, especially to anyone who recalls my early brush with Member, but let's not get pointy-finger-at-self-righteous-comments now. I'm prepared to forgive him for his viper tongue if he can control it a bit more, and I hope he forgives me for flying off the rails at him instead of being a little more rational.

I hope no one feels that I'm being harsh to them in this post - I'm aiming for even-handed here!

- Jordan

Hi Jordan, I like and have been aware all along of your intention to be even-handed over all this, but Im sorry to say sometimes you manage to come across as high-handed.

Adelaide's first reply to one of your initial attempts at mediation in this on going saga shows you had little understanding of the personalities involved.

Let me just take this and the last page to illustrate to you what is happening and who is doing what.

You have spotted my unflinching involvement in this saga, my appetite for conflict is perhaps something you dont share. It is perhaps an aquired taste, you may think it diminishes those involved, it may in your estimation, but in my opinion conflict (emotional and intellectual) is an important propogator of emotinal and intellectual growth. Maybe in the future if you ever get to use the mediation skills you are trying to bring to bare on this situation you might appreciate how all this is/has improved you.

one love

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Um, which one, Della?

U180630 ?
U538645 ?
U724267 ?

In the last one he posted to blicky just a couple of days ago, shortly after making an extremely insulting comment under Tamberlaine's photo in my friends gallery. And previously he had left one under blicky's. But you are probably right - he is not 'back', he is simply still here.

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Well, I kinda have to go with Jez on this one. The best way to win the respect of others is to first treat them with respect. You might like to try it sometime.

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Go have a look on the God thread, starting at the beginning of January. If memory serves that was when you told people there untrue things about both myself and Jez. I reckon it was around that time since it was also when you started that thread (threat?) called 'War' on my personal page. I remember because it was on my birthday.

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You forgot to add - 'In My Humble Opinion'. Do not presume to tell me who I am or my reasons for doing things (please see above on 'respect'). As I explained to Jimster, I will no longer speak to you 'privately'. I chose this thread because it is more 'public' and also because it doesn't include anyone who isn't already aware of the previous problems surrounding you and your family. If I had wanted to be 'deliberately provocative' I would have chosen a busy 'very public' thread full of people who know nothing about what has gone on here.

As you well know I *have* spoken to you 'privately' in the past. The last time I spoke to you very honesty, gently and affectionately, attempting to help you out of your most recent self-made problem. But I will no longer do this. You have shown me time and time again that you have no respect for me - on one thread you may be speaking nicely to me while on another twisting what I have said and leaping to very unpleasant conclusions about me. So I will now only speak to you on more public threads where others can see all my words to you exactly as I have written them.

az

Jordan sweetie,

I have to agree with blicky that sometimes you do come across somewhat 'high handed'. Especially saying stuff like you are prepared to forgive Member! Sounds a bit pompous to me - do you honestly think he cares if you forgive him or not?

Like you, I can appreciate that sometimes certain things are done in anger. However, the adult and responsible thing to do in these circumstances is to immediately and genuinely apologise for one's wrongdoing. Della's behaviour in general shows a pattern of saying unpleasant things in anger and then not accepting any responsibility for what she has done. Indeed she usually attempts to blame others for her actions. As for Apparition, planning and making an entire fake 'blicky page' was not something done in the heat of the moment, it was deliberate and planned. Leaving nasty comments under the photos of his 'enemies' on a site unrelated to h2g2 is also not an act of angry passion. It is just plain nasty.

You are welcome to try and understand these people and their unpleasant actions. I have given up. I will now just respond to them as I see fit when (I wish I could say 'if') they happen again.

az

Oh forgot the other bits.

Lets look at what Adelaide has been writting:

Adelaide the Cat Woman: "It's new name time again - this time it's the last, I promise..."
azahar, making your "polite request" on a thread called 'Death Threat Della', when you could easily have started a new message, was deliberately provocative and calculated to incite unpleasant feelings. What does it take for me to have my change of name honoured?

So does this make your mediation attempts, "deliberately provocative and calculated to incite unpleasant feelings."?

Jordan do you read az's request that way?

A few pages back Adelaide took up your suggestion of apologizing for her part in this.

I did not. For reasons you have never seemed interested in, I did not feel the need to apologise and would not as a matter of honour for I only apologise if I really mean it and intend to hnour the promise I see as being part and parcel of an apology: that being to try my upmost never to do that thing Im apologising for again.

As I have always maintained amongst Adelaides more significant contributions to this saga has been a deliberate effort to avoid, ignore and cloud the truth.

So a little disappointingly but not entirely unsuprisingly just two or three pages after the aopolgy we get this:

I have had one name, until Member wrecked it, then I changed to Annie Laurie, which he attempted to pun on, but it was beyond him, poor dear. Then I settled on Adelaide, which was (a) a childhood nickname and (b) incorporates Della and Adele, which was a name I had on an account I started when there were server problems and I couldn't log on. I had to ditch Adele, when I somehow got onto Member's hate list back last Novemeber.

At my most generous I could only say that she is being incredibly economical with the truth. Now doing so to strangers to the saga could be seen as misleading, but to do so in the presence of those who know and obviously care about the truth, this is something I truly feel deserves the description, "deliberately provocative and calculated to incite unpleasant feelings."

Dont worry though it hasnt done that to me

I enjoy all this. If Adelaide really wants an end to this game we are playing she only has to stop playing it, but if she keeps throwing out stuff like that I will keep bringing back what I and others see as the truth.

Adelaide ditched the Adele account because she was modded for racist and insulting comments. She was in Members bad books at the time but that was a peripheral issue.

The Apparition account may well be inactive, but that does not mean that he is not operating another account or still reading and making his presence felt to those on this site.

If indeed Jez has said that Addelaide is "without honour" she would not be the only person on tis site or even this thread to say that she has behaved dihnourably, not by a long chalk.

Way back on the bigG thread Jez and az (who has kindly done so many times since) pointed out how Adelaide was upsetting others. They both stopped because Adelaide treated these explanations as personal attacks and went on the offensive. (Does that remind you of one of your earlier attempts at mediation?)





I remember once my dogs fetched a ball for people who had come to my house for a party for so long that eventually their feet bled AND they were STILL fetching the ball back for more! Some people say that owners take after their some say its the other way around either way I think you get the picture.

one love

Jordan,

Just a quick example about what I was talking about:

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'Somehow'??? This was because of Della insulting blicky by using a racist remark last November and then refusing to apologise for it, and she *does* know this is why Member was angry with her. See what I mean? Far from simply not apologising, Della constantly refuses to even admit she has ever done anything wrong.

It's this type of 'Who, innocent little me?' comment from Della that I find particularly irritating.

az

whoops, simulpost, blicky.

az

Hi blicky/az,

I can understand how my postings might come across as 'high-handed.' I'm sure Member doesn't care an iota whether I forgive him or not, because he:

1. probably doesn't believe there was anything wrong with his attitude;
2. thinks I'm 'an idiot.'

Just in case, I did make an attempt at self-denigration, along with something of a disclaimer to make it clear that I'm not trying to sound superior, though it seems I failed in that regard.

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"'Somehow'??? This was because of Della insulting blicky by using a racist remark last November and then refusing to apologise for it, and she *does* know this is why Member was angry with her. See what I mean? Far from simply not apologising, Della constantly refuses to even admit she has ever done anything wrong."

She made one remark, using a word which very few of us actually knew was racist. I think it was Augustine who said 'he who does not sin knowingly, does not sin' - Della alledges that she didn't know about the racist connotations of her insult, which as far as we know is true. Member, however, continued to call her racist, when she has stated repeatedly and categorically that she is not. (In fact, she is very sensitive to the issue, and Member's treatment was downright cruel.)

'Like you, I can appreciate that sometimes certain things are done in anger. However, the adult and responsible thing to do in these circumstances is to immediately and genuinely apologise for one's wrongdoing.'

Unlike Member, with his penetrating comments about the victims of rape, to a victim of rape, which by no means deserved retraction?

I recall a conversation I had with... was it fatKelli? Well, I made a rude comment concerning her. I apologised at the time, but I don't feel it was really sufficient. It took me a few months to decide that I really had been harsh, and decided to apologised more fully, and check that there was nothing bad between us. The point? Sometimes it takes a long time to really apologise. I'm sure she'd feel more apologetic if it were a little easier for her to express it; I can see why she wouldn't want to as it stands.

'You have spotted my unflinching involvement in this saga, my appetite for conflict is perhaps something you dont share. It is perhaps an aquired taste...'

One I certainly don't wish to aquire. There's plenty to be said for more peaceful methods. Something I notice regularly is that whenever I get vocally angry at someone, I always come off worse, because I'm simply not willing to go as far as other people. There are boundaries to how low I will sink, or how cutting I can be, and sooner or later my conscience - which has been very carefully nurtured - will kick into gear. I don't plan to compromise this vital and important mechanism, and find it hard to see how anyone else would.

'...you may think it diminishes those involved, it may in your estimation, but in my opinion conflict (emotional and intellectual) is an important propogator of emotinal and intellectual growth.'

The question being, what sort of emotions or mentality will grow from it?

'Maybe in the future if you ever get to use the mediation skills you are trying to bring to bare on this situation you might appreciate how all this is/has improved you.'

Improved me? And you called me 'high-handed!' I doubt this is improving me. It's infuriating me. When I tell you I'm distressed about the situation, I mean it. You might be enjoying it, but merely knowing that it's going on is genuinely unpleasant for me, and I feel obliged to step in.

- Jordan

Im glad you are the world needs more like you and I wish more were like you.

Im not it would take more will than i care to give for me to be like you are about things. I wasnt trying to be high handed, but I do have more experience under my belt than you. O ne thing I ve learnt is that setting your course and sticking to it even when things get rough can be important and is a useful skill. What would you have learned if we had all rolled over and played dead on your first intervention?

Now you are dealing with difficult personalities and your own frustration if you can learn something useful from this isnt that a good thing.

The story of az, Member, Ferret, Appy, myself and various other guest playersis a long and mostly dull one. By the time the racist remark came in there was already a lot of anomosity, not quite at death threat level but a fair bit. My response to the remark is still there to see. I tried to explain to Adelaide what the issue was as idd others. Did she agree? Did she flatly deny our testimony? Or did she go on the attack calling *us* liars?

I fully accept that Adelaide did not know what she was saying but that wasnt the point and never has been. If she were just insulting to me I wouldnt mind so much. There is a lot to hang insuts on, afterall I will sink low in convos but to lie about me and deliberately misrepresent me by revising the *facts* that I will not stand for.

Will the game go on.....?

Adelaide can pick it up or walk away.

one love

Goodness Jordan, but you do carry on! (and you too blicky!)

Yes, this happened, then that happened, then she said this and he said that. And then big bad Member came and blew the house down!

And he got put on pre-mod basically for calling a spade a spade. But with much wit as well as some rather colourful language. Oh, was he cruel to poor ickle Della? Come off it. She dishes it out just as much.

Jordan, you must understand that it isn't any *one* thing Della does, it's all of them put together and added up, and knowing there will be more of the same in the future, that is so annoying and intolerable.

You want to defend her? Fine, go ahead.

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She *always* just makes one remark. Time and time again. She never stops making them. And probably never will. One at a time. And then she denies making them. And then she says how so-and-so or such-and-such *made* her make that remark and later will say she has no idea what anyone is talking about when they make reference to the remark. 'What remark?' - she will say. 'When did I make any such remark?'

Then she will go on other threads with people who have never heard of her 'wars' and complain that she is being misunderstood and has no idea why others are treating her so unfairly.

Snore.

Frankly I am fed up with the whole business.

az

As for:

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I don't appreciate being put at the front of that list, blicky. This is not my 'story' and it's not my problem.

az

'And he got put on pre-mod basically for calling a spade a spade. But with much wit as well as some rather colourful language. Oh, was he cruel to poor ickle Della? Come off it. She dishes it out just as much.'

I consider that a somewhat inaccurate statement. I'd comment further, but in light of what you say next, I don't think I should bother:

'Snore.

'Frankly I am fed up with the whole business.'

While I might /prefer/ a more positive resolution, people getting too fed up to continue is good enough for me.

Since Della hasn't responded here recently, I imagine she's just as bored of it as you are.

- Jordan

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While at the same time, saying some very nasty things about me on other threads! Thanks to someone who found them for me, I know what you were saying... and so you'll forgive me if I don't take your 'affectionate' posting at face value!
I can't go back to January to hunt for alleged untrue statements about you and Jez, aside from anything else, I don't have the time... Why are you both so scared to provide links, or specifics?

<< because she was modded for racist and insulting comments.>>

Blickybadger, I would rather not play this silly game, because I took Jordan's posts seriously, but I have to state that I was *not* modded for racial slurs, and you know that very well! I cannot let that untruth stand.

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I upset no one. Jez and azahar have repeatedly refused to be specific and provide links, or examples of what I was supposed to have said.

Apparition is *not* back, and has stated (to me) that he will not be back. As for Wraith, the same applies, and as for DMM - ? He is interested in the conflict, but has stated that he has nothing to do with it directly. You appear to have assumed otherwise!

...Or maybe I should have waited a bit longer before saying that.

Is the 'bigG' thread referring to the 'Fact or Fiction' thread?

- Jordan

Yup, looks like you spoke too soon, Jordan. Yes, it's the God thread, sometime around January. But you know, Jez and I are way too *scared* to provide any links. Wouldn't make any difference however since she ignored us back then too.

I do like this one though:

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Since when were Apparition and Wraith two different people? DMM is the latest reincarnation, btw.

As for this one:

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No, not at the same time at all, quite awhile later after I got fed up. Very nasty things = taking the P.

And know doubt the 'someone' was App, who never actually left.

az



az

whoops, that should read - no doubt . . .

az

Yes, azahar - at the same time...
<<Posted Jan 6, 2004 by azahar
hi darling,

Well, just imagine how awful it must feel to actually *be* someone like Adele/Della. Imagine living with such nasty feelings all the time.

Nope, no one is being mean to me, but the day is still young.

az
Jan 7th 2004
But just look at the source. I was quite impressed to see Math also giving her sh*t - on both threads. Up until recently he has been quite tolerant of her.

There was also something about 'giving me a smack in the gob - one clean hit... Sound familiar? All around Jan 6th and Jan 7th, before any of the 'Death Threat' stuff, and at the same time as you were urging me to accept that you were my friend, in such a sugary fashion that I was immediately suspicious!

Oh, and Appy as you call him, has left. Gone. Not returning. (I know you all miss him, Blicky most of all...)
Sorry, Jordan.