h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

This afternoon I found out that somebody I'd previously had a lot of time for is a Jehovah's Witness. How on earth can I continue to take them seriously?

There are people at work who have bibles on their desks: I avoid conversation with these people.

There are people at work who go to pray to their deity of an afternoon. I keep my contact with these people to a minimum.

To the best of my knowledge there are no satanists in my workplace. If there were I would treat them with a similarly wide berth.

I know that some of these people are really nice, top people, but how can I feel comfortable associating with lunatics? And why should I? Why should we be told to accept people's insanity just because millions of others share it too (even if they can't agree on the flavour).

I don't respect people of faith. I think they are deluded. I think they should get a grip on the fact that we are here by chance and, as such, we might as well get on with being good people. There's no need for the threat and promise that religions provide: just be good for its own sake.

It shouldn't matter what the Anglican church thinks about homosexuality. It shouldn't matter what Islam teaches about a woman's place. It shouldn't matter what one has to do to climb the tree of Ygdrassil (sp?).

It's all piffle. It's served its purpose and now it's time to move on.

Why can't we just ditch the hoodoo and get on with being nice to eachother?

"Why can't we just ditch the hoodoo and get on with being nice to eachother?"

Simplify that Roy. Why can't we just get on with each other?

I don't give a shite what someone believes so long as it doesn't affect how they interact with me. And I'm surprised you are allowing this to affect you.

Let's change the first line of your post -

"This afternoon I found out that somebody I'd previously had a lot of time for is a homosexual. How on earth can I continue to take them seriously?"

How does that look? What would you think of someone who came out with a line like that?



Good to see you back by the way

I might be wrong but I think that without religion there would be no such thing as homosexuality. There would be homosexuals and heterosexuals but the definitions wouldn't exist without religion - they'd just be extreme examples of human sexuality.

Belief in a deity only persists because we allow it to. Sexuality persists because it is part of us.

Oh yeah, it's nice to be back!

I agree with the above. If you've previously had a lot of time for them & they seem like generally Ok type person, so what if they are into baying at the moon, drinking their own urine or going to visit strange buildings with pointy bits & singing songs.

Mind you, wandering around waking people up at weekends by ringing doorbells, looking freshly scrubbed & trying to sell the idea of Paradise seems like the ultimate in Asking For Trouble to me. Perhaps you could steer them gently towards a nice little S/M coven or something? For their own good of course. Point out the shoe leather issue "these silly cows have died for you to attempt door-to-door conversion, argue that one out with the next Hindu..;"

Personally i have a lot of time for JW's. Far, far too much time. I welcome them with open harms.

zdt

Yup, there would be extremes of sexuality and extremes in every sphere get picked on for being, well, extreme.

Roy, hopefully you know I'm not homophobic, but you can't ignore that there are a great many people who feel threatened and uncomfortable with homosexuality. Thankfully, this number is decreasing all the time as our society becomes more tolerant, but it's got sod all to do with religion. Yes, theists persecuted homosexuals but this was more to do with promoting an "us & them" culture. We both know it was illogical and stupid.

But it is equally illogical & stupid to denounce someone for being a theist on the basis of their theism alone.

I know you're a fan of Dawkins. Well, I'm dubious about anybody who attacks another group with such religious zeal. It seems to me that some atheists are making their lack of belief into an article of faith.

You're in danger here of being judgemental about someone for what they think, rather than who they are. That's pretty unworthy of you given all that I've learned about you over the last year or so

Umm, yeah. If someone believes in *something* God, Allah, Life force, whatever, does that make them *automatically and intrinsically 'bad'? I don't know, meself, but, so long as they don't thrust it down me throat (so to speak) I'm not going complain. One is *entitled* to ones beliefs. I will fight for your right to believe whatever it is you do believe, I won't necessarily agree with that belief.

SWL - choice. People choose to be religious, they don't choose their sexuality whatever it might be. The fact that they choose to do something extreme is different to them being born different.

I don't have a problem with heterosexuals because they can't help it, they were born to act in such a strange fashion () and should be treated with tolerance, sympathy and respect but religious folk choose to act in such a strange fashion and so should be treated with caution.

Choice or intrinsic, it matters not. I can't accept substituting one demonisation with another.

The new PC that says we must respect everyone irrespective of their beliefs, culture, sexuality or skin colour is curiously silent on some (but not all) religions.

Aggressive atheism is just as much an "ism" as racism and sexism.

Oh crivvens (yes, I know) how do I reply to this lot?

OK. I know that there are rational people that believe in a deity, but I also know that, even if they're right, there are better things to be doing with your time than worshipping.

I see religion as a cultural phenomenon (ba-baaa-ba-da-ba) and think that if the idea of a deity wasn't floating about already nobody would feel the need to invent one, and therefore the perpetuation of deific myths is anachronistic.

Why do children grow out of a belief in Santa but not in a god? Because, through historical and cultural habit an adult believing in a god isn't challenged as an adult believing in Santa would be. I choose to challenge it.

I'm not a fan of Richard Dawkins. I'm very pleased that he's helped make the world aware that there are a lot of atheists out here, but I'm saddened by the cult of Richard 'Brian' Dawkins. I'd rather we had a cult of DNA!

I thought that Satanism was really just an athism that involved being nice to people and having one belgium of a good time while you were doing it.

(suggests looking up satanism on h2g2).

As for me, I'll stick with my tree worshiping

>>I can't accept substituting one demonisation with another<<

I'm not sure if what Roymondo is describing is demonisation though. I'm currently experiencing something similar to Roy with a friend of mine who has decided he's Catholic.

I like him, I think he's a good person but this revelation has lead my to call his judgement, rationality and heck, even his intelligence into question, especially since his lifestyle is pretty incompatible with Catholicism. I don't think he's a bad person but I don't respect him and I just don't think I'll give his opinions much importance anymore as he's shown himself incapable of making rational decisions.

Nothing particularly aggressive or illiberal about that, I simply don't respect him for the choices he's made.

To be honest *I'm* not sure if what I'm talking about is demonisation. I have no problem with the people but I can't take their beliefs seriously.

As a slight aside and also an expansion to HonestIago's post: I read a lot about gay Catholics and gay Anglicans trying to change their churches. How on earth is it possible to be a gay Catholic? I know that there is a difference between a cukltural catholic and a religious catholic, but surely a cultural catholic isn't really a catholic?

If you don't like the rules don't join the club.

Sorry, I don't know if HonestIago's mate is gay: that post was a generalisation.

Funny how society changes. It seems there must always be some group that it's acceptable to victimise.

It used to be single mothers, homosexuals and the Irish. Now it's the religious.

No, that's not quite true. It's only some religions that it's ok to make the whipping boys. Try insulting a Sikh or a Muslim because of his beliefs.

Maybe it's because JWs and Christians won't run to the yikes button.

Sorry chaps, I can't agree with dismissing a guy for his beliefs alone. It seems freedom of belief isn't one of the freedoms you are keen on.

Are you worried you might catch something from them? Dawkins has described religion as a virus after all (one of his more insiduous assertions). How much of a jump is that from believing you might catch AIDS from shaking hands with a homosexual?

I have no preference to disliking one religion over another. I think religions are perpetuated through cultural habit and are relics of less enlightened times. It's time to move on.

The population of the planet is what, 6 billion?

There are 2.5bn Christians, 1.6bn Muslims and 1.5bn "other" religions.

That's a big majority in favour of a god.

Atheists however, are primarily Western Liberals and not even a majority in their own countries.

A tiny minority reckon they are right and everyone else is wrong. Who's got the superiority complex?

>>Are you worried you might catch something from them<<

Of course not - if I was I wouldn't have anything to do with the guy. I just don't value his opinion on some topics anymore when I once did. He's still a good mate, a person I know I can rely on. and he knows the same is still true of me, I'd still do everything in my power to help him if anything ever went wrong in his life

I don't deny his, or anybody else's, freedom of belief, I just hope they respect my right to think their beliefs unwise, provided I express my opinions in a polite way.

(And BTW Roy, the mate is gay - I cannot for the life of me see how being gay and being RC could ever be reconciled)

Oh and SWL I have called into question the beliefs and cultural practices of Sikhs, Muslims, Hindus, Christians and Jews on a few occasions - it just depends on how you go about it.

Regarding choice - IMO, religion is man-made but belief is inherent.

And as I said earlier, to an outsider the atheists would look like a lunatic fringe.

Why we should be wary of anyone criticising people because of their beliefs. This is where such a mindset leads -

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/karadzic/atrocities/