h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

the sock on the floor is representative - actually i don't care about the state of their rooms until:
"muuuuuuuummmmmmmmmm where's my xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx"

and then there is a split second before explodes.

Frankly - what is really getting on my nerves is the constant to and fro between them about "the state of their rooms" "the way they leave the kitchen/bathroom" "don't do the jobs they agreed to do" etc etc

I have 20 billion other things I need to do, and the constant shouting is preventing that. I am hugely stressed by being the one who earns the money, and am finally doing something for myself (OU course) and STILL I have to sort out the carp.

In effect: it's about all the other people in my house...

The sock on the floor is likely to be the other sock to the pair they need when we have to leave the house to do something. I can't drive them to their dentist appointment if they won't come out of the house, and because it's for braces, if they don't go, I have to pay.

etc etc etc

It's about the fact, that they absolutely won't learn to live with others. I wish I had the option, by the way, of sticking them in a boarding school for one year. That would learn them

re 32:

"Everything I've seen says girls do better in single-sex schools while boys do worse in them".

The last I heard (from Switzerland, I think it was) contradicts you, but I'm no expert, not even a teacher. Maybe I should ask my brother, the school teacher.

"girls do perform better and achieve more when there's no boys around to bother them."

They do better anyway, don't they? Girls mature earlier (in this respect at least), seem better equipped for school than boys are.

And where will dividing leave the boys?

Hey, maybe that's the answer: The average year group does not learn more or better if divided?

- - -

Sho, my mum and I had the most terrible rows and she only stopped hitting me (with everything from labels to belts) when I threatened to hit back. This is still in the back of my mind, of course, but I have a somewhat relaxed relation with the old these days

Mind you, it helps that she lives in the other end of the country so we only talk on the phone (once or twice per week)

>>They do better anyway, don't they? Girls mature earlier (in this respect at least), seem better equipped for school than boys are.<<

Yes, girls mature earlier which is probably one of the reasons they do better. It's magnified in a single sex school because instead of focusing their efforts on the less mature boys, the class teacher can support the more mature girls exclusively.

It leaves the boys worse off,as I said. Girls benefit from single-sex education while boys suffer from it.

One of the things that I've found that works with J is to add jobs to neglected jobs. So I leave the house, asking him to:

top up all the dog water bowls with a jug
dry up and put away what's on the draining board
bring in any toys the dogs have taken outside

I let him do them when I'm not here as it seems to keep things calmer.

So I get home, 3 hours later. Nothing done. I now add:

Pick up all dog bowls, empty, clean and refill
Clear the draining board and wash up
Clear garden of toys and any dog poo

And do it THIS INSTANT.

And the slightest little means I will then add to the list.

I just have to remember to add to the list not at him myself.

Possibly what works is me then prancing around saying things like 'so glad you didn't do your jobs, now you have to do mine and I get to sit around drinking Go on, argue, so I can get you to hoover as well'.

I grew up with a nagging mother myself. That's why I decided not to inflict one on my children. Any chore that doesn't get done doesn't get done, it's not the end of the world. All my children turned out to be fabulous, responsible people, while I am still a slob, and still have problems with my mother. So which method is better?

Oh, and adding even more chores is just cruel. I train my dogs to be obedient. I train my children to be independent. So, yes, they would refill the dog's water bowl - because they noticed the dog was thirsty and needed water. Not because I'm the mother and I said so. I never felt the need to establish my dominance. Good thing, too, because one of my daughters now has a husband who towers over me. Another has a sword...

I think you forgot to add 'in my opinion' to that comment that adding more chores is cruel.

I also don't train my son. I educate him that if you don't tackle housework when it's light, it becomes heavy.

if we don't do our jobs - it's not fair on the people that do their jobs. In this house that's me and . We all have our jobs, and for the Gruesomes they are not particularly onerous because I grew up in a house where jobs were doled out and done with military precision - including shoe cleaning every sunday evening (not surprising given what my dad did as a job)

For me, it's not about the job, it's about accepting and taking responsibility for something. We have a because they promised faithfully to clean out his litter box and to feed him and take care of his bowls. I take care of catsick and his little tribute presents.

They get pocket money and their job is to take out the rubbish. It's their choice that they take it in turns - but having accepted this bargain (money for trash) it isn't then fair of them to leave it to pile up and pile up until I can't do anything in the kitchen until it's taken out (and if they aren't there, then I have to do it). Sure, that's a cut in pocket money, but it's the lack of responsibility for what they agreed to that upsets me more.

If I suddenly jacked my job in (as I would DEARLY love to do) we would have to move to social housing and there wouldn't be much in the way of treats and new clothes (including for me). The deal with us is: I get to do the OU because I go out to work. goes out to work and he gets to watch football/rugby/cricket pretty much when he wants.

IMO it's not too much to ask that they pull a bit of their weight.

It's that aspect of: your time doesn't matter but mine does ("muuummmm we've been at school all day we just want to chill" especially when I've just schlepped myself home after yet another 12 hour day that gets my <goat&gt

We're all different, and we all have different thresholds for things - but a bit of self discipline learned now will pay for itself later.

re 42:

I meant ladle, not label - stupid keyboard!

re 46 and 47:

You sound like a highly intelligent mother, Yarreau, you think like me

Show the kids some trust and they will live up to it - and fill the 's water bowl

And in my opinion you didn't have to add "in my opinion", I got that right away

Yeah, but it wasn't you being accused of cruelty to your child.

...and I don't think you were, Mina.

We all have our various ways dealing with our kids. Frack, they're *our* kids we know what pushes what buttons and what makes no difference. My fifteen year old boy is trying his boundaries right now, but he knows when to back off and buckle under.

Hell, it's what makes us (and our offspring) individuals.

Personally, I'm a slob, but I *will* not allow my childer to leave cups/glasses/frijj ringpulls lying on the floor. My fifteen year old knows damn well that if his favourite shirt is not in or near the washing machine it won't get washed. My seventeen year old will just wonder why he has nothing change into...

My eldest two live their dad and are only here at weekends (or during the week as well during the holidays). Only the middle one seems to 'get on' that he needs to help ( I blame their dad, he was even slobbier than me

I appreciate that your son has special needs, Mina (ADHD was it?), and you once told me that being strict with him actually helps him (and you). Otherwise reading your post 45 might also have made me accuse you of cruelty towards him, but I will refrain from doing so and hope you will cope as best you can

Magwitch, it's been done twice in the same thread. I really can't see why teaching a child that if they don't what they are supposed to there are consequences is cruelty, or even 'strict' rather than basic parenting!

I won't stay here and be accused of abuse.

Being taught to be responsible, and that there can easily be more of a work-load if things are not done when they should be, that isn't cruel. It's responsible parenting. My opinion, of course

Parent to child: Right, you will do A, and then B will result.

Child: Fine!

Result, child forgets/ doesn't feel the need/ whateeeva!!! to do A, and isn't in the least bothered about the resulting lack of B.

Parent is outraged that agreed deal has been reneged on, and takes it personally.

Sho, it's not a personal attack. They're behaving like normal teenage girls. Doesn't make it right, doesn't make it easy to deal with, but it IS the norm, and many other mothers will have been through it.

Can you access Mumsnet or any other motherly wisdom-sharing forum? Honestly, I don't think it'll change their beahviour, but it might be a good place to vent and get support.

I think you're on to something important here, Beatrice. While the behaviour of teenage girls and teenage boys *may seem* to be the same mothers may interpret it differently than fathers?

In any way I am sure you are right: It's not a personal attack

Can I suggest an idea: No reaction to the twosome whatsoever. No shouting, no allowance, no food (have them make their own and make their own tables, beds, laundry, you name it)

Min, I didn't read what you said as cruel at all. Isn't it better to teach children that there are consequences to their (in)actions thn to let them swan around believing their every want will be met whther they work for it or not? We all have to do things we don't want to do, and not doing them has consequences. I don't wnt to do my horrible job, but if I don't we won't hve any money for the niceties. If they don't pick up their toys then we won't be able to spend as long out playing because I have to spend time doing it for them, or if not then the toys end up getting trodden on and broken and have to be thrown away. I try to make them wnt to help out (which they often do) but there are times when I have to use the threat of negative consequences.

I don't know what to suggest with teenagers Sho, all I know is I was a horrible one, and my brother ws a troublesome one. Think we all got through it

blimey, not going to mumsnet, they're a scary bunch!

For me - I know about teenager stuff, that's normal. I even know families who have way more screaming and shouting (because while I do have the impression we don't do much apart from that, it isn't actually true)

But it is the failure to learn about actions and consequences, and the failure to learn that when you live in and around other people, you can't always do what you want.

In about 10 years it will be over and I'll probably have an attack of nostalgia for this time... or maybe not

Oh trust me, you will!

It's J's 18th birthday on Friday, and I'm currently writing a poem, whilst Abba's "Slipping through my fingers" is playing in my head, and tears are welling in my eyes.

(Messy wouldn't BEGIN to describe the state of her bedroom when she was in her early teens, and she's had more than her share of difficulties at school. But look at her now, cooking lasagne from scratch instead of making a Pot Noodle for tea, doing well at a summer job, praised by the headmaster.....)

Positive reinforcement is good - spot something they did well, or when asked to without moaning, and heap on the praise.

Oh, and a big